Campus police officer shoots and kills naked student

[TXPPQ]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/06/justice/a ... index.html

Authorities in Mobile, Alabama, are investigating why a University of South Alabama police officer shot and killed an 18-year-old freshman who they say was naked and acting erratically outside the campus police station early Saturday.

While I am certain drugs had something to do with this, I don't think deadly force should have been used in this situation. Opinions?

[ddurkof]

Might I inquire just how many manic individuals that are in a psychotic state you have dealt with as a law enforcement officer?

Over the past 30 years I have handled a number of them and only a great deal of luck and the grace of God I have not had to use deadly force. It is a split second decision that can go one way or another. This particular time deadly force was used. It will be reviewed over and over in both civil and criminal settings with all of the hand wringing saying, "He/she could have done xyz." The post shooting investigation will be hundreds of pages, if not thousands of pages, long. The civil depositions will be hundreds of pages in length.

Since they don't provide you with any crime scene photos, shooting diagrams, autopsy reports, witness statements, the shooting officer's statement, just what are you basing your opinion on?

Get some "Force on Force" training where you actually deal with situations like this and see if you would have shot.

I will admit that I don't know if the officer should have used deadly force. I can't make that determination based on a ten paragraph news article. Do some research at http://www.forcescience.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and you may learn you don't know what you don't know.

[MoJoeWrkn]

Might I inquire just how many manic individuals that are in a psychotic state you have dealt with as a law enforcement officer?

Over the past 30 years I have handled a number of them and only a great deal of luck and the grace of God I have not had to use deadly force. It is a split second decision that can go one way or another. This particular time deadly force was used. It will be reviewed over and over in both civil and criminal settings with all of the hand wringing saying, "He/she could have done xyz." The post shooting investigation will be hundreds of pages, if not thousands of pages, long. The civil depositions will be hundreds of pages in length.

Since they don't provide you with any crime scene photos, shooting diagrams, autopsy reports, witness statements, the shooting officer's statement, just what are you basing your opinion on?

Get some "Force on Force" training where you actually deal with situations like this and see if you would have shot.

I will admit that I don't know if the officer should have used deadly force. I can't make that determination based on a ten paragraph news article. Do some research at http://www.forcescience.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and you may learn you don't know what you don't know.

We as a society have gotten in the habit of deciding guilt without ever hearing all the facts.

[A-R]

Might I inquire just how many manic individuals that are in a psychotic state you have dealt with as a law enforcement officer?

Over the past 30 years I have handled a number of them and only a great deal of luck and the grace of God I have not had to use deadly force. It is a split second decision that can go one way or another. This particular time deadly force was used. It will be reviewed over and over in both civil and criminal settings with all of the hand wringing saying, "He/she could have done xyz." The post shooting investigation will be hundreds of pages, if not thousands of pages, long. The civil depositions will be hundreds of pages in length.

Since they don't provide you with any crime scene photos, shooting diagrams, autopsy reports, witness statements, the shooting officer's statement, just what are you basing your opinion on?

Get some "Force on Force" training where you actually deal with situations like this and see if you would have shot.

I will admit that I don't know if the officer should have used deadly force. I can't make that determination based on a ten paragraph news article. Do some research at http://www.forcescience.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and you may learn you don't know what you don't know.

[Jumping Frog]

Last time I recall a naked psychotic man in the news was that guy in Miami who chewed that face off of that homeless guy. Sounds to me like teeth are "capable of causing, death or serious bodily injury."

I reckon that officer didn't feel like getting his face chewed off.

[mrvmax]

Yep, no way to know or judge with "facts" only from the news.

[TXPPQ]

First off, I would like to thank you for taking the time to post on here and lending us your years of knowledge as a law enforcement officer. Secondly, I would like to state that I am in no way a law enforcement expert and that anything I state is simply my own personal opinion. If I have caused any offense I sincerely apologize, it is not my intention to offend or in any way impugn or pass judgement on the subjects in my posts. My only intention is to engage individuals such as yourself in discussion over these real life scenarios so that we as a community may learn and grow.

To answer your questions, while I have had exactly zero experience in dealing with an individual in a psychotic state in the capacity of law enforcement officer, I have had hundreds if not thousands of encounters with mentally unstable individuals in a clinical setting. While you may chastise me for forming my opinions on what is a rather ambiguous news report, it is the only information that I am made privy to at the time, and to be able to get the complete and unadulterated facts of the incident I would either have to be a participant in the investigation committee or a member of the jury (should it come to that).

Keep in mind that my opinions are by no means set in stone, they can and will probably change as soon as more information is made public. An opinion is just that, what a person feels at the time with the knowledge on hand. For example, if someone were to ask you " Hey ddurkof, what do you think of that Atkins diet?" Do you tell them A) Your opinion based on what you know at the time ... or B) Tell them that you don't know but that you will go home and read every medical journal, magazine article, clinical study, and personal review and that you will get back to them in 6 months? To assume that a person has invested hundreds of hours of research into a subject just to simply form an opinion is quite simply unreasonable.

[ffemt300]

Sounds like bath salts....

[Oldgringo]

Running around nekid ain't recommended procedure; especially, in front of the police station on a Saturday night.

[JJVP]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/06/justice/a ... index.html

Authorities in Mobile, Alabama, are investigating why a University of South Alabama police officer shot and killed an 18-year-old freshman who they say was naked and acting erratically outside the campus police station early Saturday.

While I am certain drugs had something to do with this, I don't think deadly force should have been used in this situation. Opinions?

If all I had was what you posted above, I would agree with you. However, after reading the article and presented with the facts below, assuming they are the true facts, my vote would be for the police. JMHO.

If it had been you, what would you have done? Wait for the nude muscular man to punch the daylights out of you before you even thought about pulling you weapon and shooting?

When he left the station to investigate, the school said, "he was confronted by a muscular, nude man who was acting erratically."

The man, later identified as Gilbert Thomas Collar, of Wetumpka, Alabama, repeatedly rushed and verbally challenged the officer in a fighting stance, the school said.

The officer retreated several times to try to calm the situation.

When the individual continued to rush toward the officer in a threatening manner and ignored the officer's repeated commands to stop, the officer fired one shot with his police sidearm, which struck the chest of the assailant,"

[TXPPQ]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/06/justice/a ... index.html

Authorities in Mobile, Alabama, are investigating why a University of South Alabama police officer shot and killed an 18-year-old freshman who they say was naked and acting erratically outside the campus police station early Saturday.

While I am certain drugs had something to do with this, I don't think deadly force should have been used in this situation. Opinions?

If all I had was what you posted above, I would agree with you. However, after reading the article and presented with the facts below, assuming they are the true facts, my vote would be for the police. JMHO.

If it had been you, what would you have done? Wait for the nude muscular man to punch the daylights out of you before you even thought about pulling you weapon and shooting?

You make a very valid argument, although the reasons that made me hesitate in stating that the use of deadly force was indeed justified were:

When he left the station to investigate, the school said, "he was confronted by a muscular, nude man who was acting erratically."

He was right outside of the police station, was he the only officer there at the time? Could he have not called for backup and subdued the subject (if he was not alone)?

The officer, whose name hasn't been released, drew his weapon and ordered Collar to stop, the school said. The officer retreated several times to try to calm the situation.

He had time to retreat several times but did not attempt to employ any less than lethal measures. Could he have used pepper spray or a taser? (This is a campus police officer so I'm guessing it is a safe bet that he had one if not both on him)

I concede the fact that the news reports are vague on the details and a good deal of assumptions must be made. I formed my opinion on the assumption that there was more than 1 officer on duty at the station (Can't really think of many police stations manned by just 1 person) and that he had the option of using less than lethal force to stop the assailant (He is a campus police officer after all and I would hate to think that his only measure of handling a drunken frat boy or to break up a fight would be to pull his gun).

If it comes to light that this was indeed the worst case scenario and that the officer was alone and had no other deterrent than his service weapon then I would 100% agree with you that he had no other choice than to shoot.

[baldeagle]

to be able to get the complete and unadulterated facts of the incident I would either have to be a participant in the investigation committee or a member of the jury (should it come to that).

You're deluded if you think that jury members get the complete and unadulterated facts of the incident. Jury members are like mushrooms.....

[TXPPQ]

to be able to get the complete and unadulterated facts of the incident I would either have to be a participant in the investigation committee or a member of the jury (should it come to that).

You're deluded if you think that jury members get the complete and unadulterated facts of the incident. Jury members are like mushrooms.....

Fair enough, I petition the court to have that part of the sentence stricken from the record.

[tbrown]

Running around nekid ain't recommended procedure; especially, in front of the police station on a Saturday night.

Maybe if the police station is off campus but some colleges have naked people running around campus on the weekend.

[chris211]

I completed my third tactical pistol course of the year, yeasterday. This class had several top notch shooters, very knowledgable in all types of firearms. A marine, couple of Army and one police academy graduate.

Two mags, 3 rds each. The course of fire: Closest target 10 feet, one round; second target at 25 feet, two rounds, tactical reload, second target gets one more and first target gets the last two. Get off the X.

The first pass, half the shooters could not remember the sequence, didn't get off the x and two shooters actually had a round left at the end of the exercise. This is all done under no more pressure than other shooters watching you. Even during this live fire exercise, tunnel vision sets in and hearing becomes nul.

No way we can pass judgement without all the facts and even then, the best trained personel in the world have a hard time making life and death, split second decisions. the real deal is not like reading the facts or opinions in a report or news article.