TexasCHLforum.com

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/19292 ... z23lkUEU6f" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

After a short pursuit and subsequent crash of a stolen vehicle, Harris County Precinct 4 County Constables captured three adults and a juvenile accomplice.

Aiding in the apprehension was Ryan Hansen, a civilian fire arms instructor who witnessed the crash and watched the occupants flee.

Score one for the good guys! Carjackers in Houston are no joke. One of my best friends there was initially prompted to get his CHL after witnessing a carjacking at 5 in the afternoon near The Galleria.

I'm glad it worked out for the GG. Not sure what to think about it though. We are not police. He did not know why they were running or the facts in the case. I like the outcome just not sure if Tritico's statement jives with what we were taught...

So, do you think this was a case of the more common law enforcement quote being, "We really don't advise citizens to do that"?

Nope. The Chief had this quote to the press:

"If you want a definition of why we build prisons in Texas, it's because of these four individuals. These guys are violent individuals," said Chief Mark Herman.

...

"He made a citizen's arrest which is legal in Texas. He helped us out and we're thankful," agreed Chief Herman who believes the suspected carjackers are responsible for dozens of violent crimes across the Houston area.

This was the quote on the legalities:

Do those licensed to carry have a lawful right to draw their weapon, even if their own life is not being threatened?

FOX 26 Legal expert Chris Tritico says in this case, the act of pulling a pistol is protected.

"Under Texas law, you have the right to use deadly force to protect someone else's property. If some one is committing an immediate breach of the peace, a felony or fleeing from theft, as in this case, you have a right to stop them and use deadly force if you have to," said Tritico.

I generally agree with the typically expressed sentiment that a CHL is not a batman license, and there are severe downsides to people are risking everything for someone else's property.

But it is hard to argue with results.

Also note that if these were a half-dozen violent carjackings, this wasn't just an arrest for a property crime. This is arresting violent robbers who sooner or later were going to kill someone.

Topbuilder wrote:I'm glad it worked out for the GG. Not sure what to think about it though. We are not police. He did not know why they were running or the facts in the case. I like the outcome just not sure if Tritico's statement jives with what we were taught...

That depends where you get your teachings.

I'll be happy to follow and report actions to 911... that said I am not willing to confront carjackers when property is the only thing in danger.

RSJ wrote:I'll be happy to follow and report actions to 911... that said I am not willing to confront carjackers when property is the only thing in danger.

What if they were/are using force or deadly force, and people were getting hurt in the process?

RSJ wrote:I'll be happy to follow and report actions to 911... that said I am not willing to confront carjackers when property is the only thing in danger.

Carjacking is a violent act and by definition property is not the only thing in danger.

The way I read the story, the carjackers were fleeing away from the police. That is different in my book than someone in the process or threatening a carjacking.

Well, I was going to post about the kids who were low on gas so they shot and killed this pretty girl because her car had more gas on Edgebrook in Houston, but I typed carjacking murder Edgebrook and too many hits came up so...

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas ... 544272.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
May 9, 2012 –
Four teens have been charged with capital murder in the fatal carjacking of a Houston man who was stabbed and shot in front of his wife

http://blacklikemoi.com/2012/07/pastor- ... arjacking/#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Jul 31, 2012
pastor was carjacked and killed outside his apartment complex in Houston

Point is, ok they flee, they get away, so they shoot someone next time ... now they won't if they are stopped/caught/arrested. He made a legal citizens arrest.

Article 14.01(a) of the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure permits private citizens to make arrests only if the offense is classed as a felony or as an offense against the public peace.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... .htm#14.01" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TITLE 1. CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
CHAPTER 14. ARREST WITHOUT WARRANT
Art. 14.01. OFFENSE WITHIN VIEW. (a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a warrant, arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence or within his view, if the offense is one classed as a felony or as an offense against the public peace.
(b) A peace officer may arrest an offender without a warrant for any offense committed in his presence or within his view.
Acts 1965, 59th Leg., vol. 2, p. 317, ch. 722. Amended by Acts 1967, 60th Leg., p. 1735, ch. 659, Sec. 8, eff. Aug. 28, 1967.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... m/PE.9.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after ...
and
(3) he reasonably believes that: ...

I probably wouldn't get involved for numerous reasons if no one's life was in immediate danger, but he did, and by doing so, may have saved lives later.

RSJ wrote:The way I read the story, the carjackers were fleeing away from the police. That is different in my book than someone in the process or threatening a carjacking.

Hmm, that's a good point. This is a much different situation than the guy who assisted the cop in Brown county where the cop clearly needed assistance. Or the textbook case where an officer hollers for help. And, just to dig deeper with the law a little bit, it says we are justified in making a citizen's arrest when we witness a felony. But with this carjacking case, he really didn't witness the carjacking, did he?

I still believe he did the right thing, but it seems like his justification came after the fact.

These real world cases sure aren't cut and dry, are they?!