TexasCHLforum.com

I was alerted to a horrific crime in KC (which I will not go into, since I have been told there are "issues" by a friend in KC) The KC paper does not have a story on it, but the Daily Mail in the UK does.

Anyway, this is the lead commented story on their website. It deals with a fast food restaurant robbery by two BG's one with what appears to be a long barrel pistol and another man with a shotgun.

The video shows the customers getting down on the floor and the BG repeatedly hitting the drive through clerk with his gun to, it seems, speed him up.

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/05/34 ... ni_popular" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyway, I am thinking my Sig P238, is no longer the best carry weapon. (I'm sure some of you will say it never was)

Missouri and Kansas are both CHL and Texas reciprocity.

So be a victim, lie on the floor and hope you don't get shot?

Remember one guy has a shotgun.

These two were very careless. If I were a customer when this happened they would probably be going out in body bags. They paid little to no attention to the customers and were sloppy with the employees. The guy with the handgun could have very easily had that thing taken away from him.

These videos always make me start contemplating "what would I have done?"

My honest answer is, I don't know for sure. So hard to say depending on where I was in the restaurant and whether I felt directly threatened.

It does reinforce my thoughts that I rarely, to never, carry a little .380 mouse gun. I would feel almost unarmed in that situation. If I was carrying a little .380, I'd have it in my hand and ready to use if they got anywhere near me or pointing a weapon at me. The same is likely true even if I'm carrying my Glock 32/19 or 1911, but I'd feel a little more comfortable that I could drop mr. bad guy if I had to.

If you were that customer at the counter when it started, would you go lie down if armed? I know that armed or not, I'm not laying where she did. They may see her as too much of a witness, and she's openly exposed. Also, if armed, there's no way to draw without being seen.

Another perspective on laying down and waiting it out:

[youtube][/youtube]

I can guarantee you, armed or not, I will NOT lay down on the floor face down under any circumstance.

JJVP wrote:I can guarantee you, armed or not, I will NOT lay down on the floor face down under any circumstance.

Yeah, me too. I will also not get in the boxcar, or locked in a building to be burned.

eureka40 wrote:

JJVP wrote:I can guarantee you, armed or not, I will NOT lay down on the floor face down under any circumstance.

Yeah, me too. I will also not get in the boxcar, or locked in a building to be burned.

When I go, I will go down fighting. I will not just lay down and wait to die.

Long story short, a coworker of mine was also in a situation where he was made to get face down during a robbery while a shotgun was pushed against the back of his head. He said he felt very helpless and honestly thought he was gonna die. He was not armed and the two aggressors both had weapons. All he could think to do was plead that he needed his medicine and fake a sort of asthma attack. I don't know if he would of been alive right now if he would of put up a fight. This was in a lonely road during night time

To be clear, I would not either.
I would likely act like I was while drawing. That's why I would never go to where that lady custer did! Armed or not.

Re-reading my post, it made me sound like I would be willing to, but I DEFINITELY would not.

The way the thug was holding the pistol at the first register would have made taking it away very easy. Grab it and turn it torward the back of his hand, taking his finger off with it. I did not see where the other thug was at this time, so it might not have been possible without getting shot by thug number two. The thug with the pistol was also standing in a way that would have made taking him down very easy... with very little effort.

It really is hard to know for sure without being there. But those were just a couple observations I made as a Monday morning quarterback.

I can't wait to hear from their mother, "they are really good boys, they would never hurt anyone..."

psijac wrote:I can't wait to hear from their mother, "they are really good boys, they would never hurt anyone..."

^this

were they stealing the money or the fried chicken?

The video is actually promoting compliance --it has the guy who was shot saying he thought he'd be alright if he complied, it portrays drawing a cell phone to call 9/11 as if it is somehow an active defense, and it makes the false claim that he "completely recovered," phraseology that minimizes what happened. Yet he stated earlier that he was shot in the kidney and colon, so how could he "completely" recover?

Edit: I was referring to the second video, not the video linked to by the OP.

As far as a P238 not being the best carry weapon lets just say that I think everyone would prefer to have a P238 over nothing in a gun fight and they do make for a good backup gun. Judging by the barrel length of the handgun I am going to say it was most likely intended for use hunting which means that the words Magnum or Casull are likely to be in the name of the cartridge. Against the kind of weapons used by the suspects I would prefer to have a rifle, failing to have one of those I would opt for a shotgun, failing at that I would take what ever I could get and pray that I wouldn't have to use it. When you get right down to it Handguns really don't measure up as effective tools to stop somebody with in the here and now, going into a gun fight with a handgun is really on the "Avoid if possible" list for me. There's a number of reasons I carry a 1911 in .45 ACP as my primary, and there are also reasons why I have been known to carry a P238 as a BUG.