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The guy took 4 hits center mass and was still able to get in his car and start it up.

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/train ... oulis-inci

Remarkably, Palmer had taken 22 hits from Soulis' .40-caliber Glock, 17 of which had hit center mass. Despite the fact that the weapon had been loaded with Ranger SXTs considered by many to be one of the best man-stoppers available Palmer lived for more than four minutes after the last shot was fired. His autopsy revealed nothing more than a small amount of alcohol in his bloodstream. Although Soulis could not have known it, Palmer was wanted for murder in a neighboring state.

Was it 17 com or 4 com? A 40cal glock 17?????? It would either be a 9mm or a glock22... There are a few "mis-prints" in the quote above..and I havnt even clicked the link yet.

Target1911 wrote:Was it 17 com or 4 com? A 40cal glock 17?????? It would either be a 9mm or a glock22... There are a few "mis-prints" in the quote above..and I havnt even clicked the link yet.

Read it again...there was a comma.

from Soulis' .40-caliber Glock, 17 of which had hit center mass

In regards to being hit 17 times with a decent caliber...

I'm convinced scumbags and stupid people have an extra "toughness" gene or something that helps them continue on in the gene pool.

Seems like you see a lot of stories like this where lousy thugs manage to live.

Just goes to show a handgun isn't the end all, be all fight stopper we all wish it was.

Target1911 wrote:Was it 17 com or 4 com? A 40cal glock 17?????? It would either be a 9mm or a glock22... There are a few "mis-prints" in the quote above..and I havnt even clicked the link yet.

".40-caliber Glock,[comma] 17 of which" - .40 cal, 17 shots. 4 were COM before he moved into the car, the rest of the COM shots were done after the perp got in the car and tried to leave.

Bullets aren't magical. They don't stop bad guys instantly with one shot (or even good guys). That's why you shoot until the threat is over. There's no fixed number of rounds you must fire until you get compliance. Sometimes none, sometimes, as above, much more than you would think (and far more than gun control proponents want to allow you to have).

74novaman wrote:In regards to being hit 17 times with a decent caliber...

I'm convinced scumbags and stupid people have an extra "toughness" gene or something that helps them continue on in the gene pool.

Seems like you see a lot of stories like this where lousy thugs manage to live.

Just goes to show a handgun isn't the end all, be all fight stopper we all wish it was.

He lived for 4 minutes after he took round number 17.

The things a human body can endure never ceases to amaze me. My take away from the story: Never underestimate anyone.

4 minutes is more than enough time to try to kill who shot you.

Wow!!! These stories just keep on popping up! Like I said the last time. It gives me serious pause about my Kahr P380. Heck... it makes a feller wonder about his 9mm.

WOW!! Sounds like a few head shots would have gone a longgggggggg waaaaaaaayyyyyyy!

PUCKER wrote:WOW!! Sounds like a few head shots would have gone a longgggggggg waaaaaaaayyyyyyy!

The only problem with the head shot is the risk of missing increases greatly. You can also shoot a guy in the head and not get a instant kill. I think most officers are trained to go for COM shots. Once the whole instinct/training thing kicks in, I bet they are on auto pilot.

The ability of a determined attacker to sustain multiple hits and continue fighting on adrenaline alone is amazing. Just because the hits are to center mass it doesn't mean instant incapacitation. Unless a hit breaks the spine or otherwise disrupts the central nervous system we are relying on blood loss and shock to take effect. Head shots, unless you hit the Medulla oblongata, will not always bring an end to the fight. To get an idea of the difficulty of making a head shot hang a balloon on a string in the wind and try to hit it from 21 feet.

MoJo wrote:The ability of a determined attacker to sustain multiple hits and continue fighting on adrenaline alone is amazing. Just because the hits are to center mass it doesn't mean instant incapacitation. Unless a hit breaks the spine or otherwise disrupts the central nervous system we are relying on blood loss and shock to take effect. Head shots, unless you hit the Medulla oblongata, will not always bring an end to the fight. To get an idea of the difficulty of making a head shot hang a balloon on a string in the wind and try to hit it from 21 feet.

I am not an expert in the very least...but in the past few months, I have gotten on a kick of reading WWII paratrooper stories, personal account-type stories. It amazes me that so many of those men could endure such terrible injuries and still make it through, and live to a ripe old age. But the reverse was also true: many men took hits that seemed trivial in appearance but died very rapidly. Not because they weren't "tough enough", they were well-trained paratroopers after all, but because the bullet or shrapnel hit something VITAL. One paratrooper didn't have a mark on him...yet he was dead instantly. Cause? A tiny shell splinter that entered through his OPEN MOUTH and penetrated his upper palate and into his brain. It seems to me, a layman on the subject, that there are no guarantees, either way. Just probabilities...

...back in the 60s, I read a book about the NYC Rescue Squads...one story was that a man, walking down a sidewalk, caught a falling flagpole in the top of the head...it was about 1 1/4" around...passed through his brain and came out the roof of his mouth and out his mouth...he just stood there...the squad took a hi-speed saw and cut both ends off the pole, took him to the hospital, and removed the rest...the man healed fine with no impairment...that story told me a man's not that easy to stop...never forgot it...
...never assume the BG's not going to get back up...remove his weapon when you get him down...and watch him...you can go out for a smoke and calm down after the cops get there...

74novaman wrote:4 minutes is more than enough time to try to kill who shot you.

Exactly. I have said it many times but handguns are a compromise and we use them only because they are convenient. The body can take a lot and continue to function for a short time and a lot can happen in a short time.

A few years ago, I had a group of hogs come by my treestand. The boar out front was probably about 200 pounds or so. I shot him first then proceeded to shoot 4 more smaller pigs. When I shot him, he fell down immediately. When I got down out of the tree and looked over there, he wasn't there. I tracked him down and he had crawled away through some heavy brush and I found him probably 30-35 yards away. He took a 405 grain 45-70 through the chest that destroyed his lungs, broke the far shoulder, and opened a huge exit hole. A full magazine of 40s or 45s wouldn't do that kind of damage, yet he was able to get back up and crawl away, broken shoulder and all.