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http://www.local12.com/news/local/story ... qnu7Q.cspx

The above video is a news story out of Ohio. The owner of a restaurant was the victim of an armed robbery
by one BG with a handgun.

The BG took 10-12 minutes inside the store, cleaning out the cash register, safe, taking plastic carryout bags
full of coins, as well as 2 takeout meals. He was so intent on all this that he didn't notice the owner sneak out.

The owner got his handgun and awaited the robber outside. IMHO, he made the mistake of trying to be a good
guy and told the robber to stop. The robber opened up with his weapon. The GG estimated that they were 5
feet apart. The GG could have killed the BG, but instead shot him in the leg(s) so he would have a chance to
turn his life around. Nice intentions, but I don't think that will happen.

The GG was not hit by the BG's rounds, but the GG's Pontiac delivery minivan took a few rounds, including one that KO'd
the radiator.

SIA

I love it when a bad guy gets what he deserves.

But I have to ask, once the owner leaves the building to get his gun and then sticks around to confront the bad guy, is the law going to protect him? In this case the bad guy fired at him so it could be pretty much case closed as defending one's self. Does the Castle Doctrine apply to a business owner?

Wfahey wrote:I love it when a bad guy gets what he deserves.

But I have to ask, once the owner leaves the building to get his gun and then sticks around to confront the bad guy, is the law going to protect him? In this case the bad guy fired at him so it could be pretty much case closed as defending one's self. Does the Castle Doctrine apply to a business owner?

In TX, it is when being robbed.

My (quick) read of the story is that the BG, like Han, shot first. I'd imagine that would give the GG legal justification for shooting the BG.

Wfahey wrote:I love it when a bad guy gets what he deserves.

But I have to ask, once the owner leaves the building to get his gun and then sticks around to confront the bad guy, is the law going to protect him? In this case the bad guy fired at him so it could be pretty much case closed as defending one's self. Does the Castle Doctrine apply to a business owner?

...it's not looked at only as self-defense, he's stopping an armed robbery...deadly force is allowed...PC9.31(a) (esp. last sentence) and (1) (C) qualify him under 9.32...reading the two together, he's within the law to wait, confront, and shoot the guy...even before the guy opened up on him...

...as for the civil liability...
Sec. 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY [AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE]. A [It
is an affirmative defense to a civil action for damages for personal injury or death that the] defendant who uses force or[, at the time
the cause of action arose, was justified in using] deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9 [Section 9.32], Penal Code, is immune
from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's [against a person who at the time of the] use of
force or deadly force, as applicable [was committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of the defendant].

...the words in brackets were stricken from the enrolled version and are not part of the law...it doesn't matter where you use the deadly force(in Texas), if you're authorized under PC 9.32, you're immune from civil liability...they may refer the case to a grand jury to determine the justification under 9.32...then the immunity above kicks in...

Wfahey wrote:Does the Castle Doctrine apply to a business owner?

In Texas the Castle Doctrine law says "occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment" so it applies to a business owner inside their place of business. I'm not sure if it applies if the owner is outside the place of business. If the criminal is the only one inside, is it occupied?

...the business was occupied when the perp robbed it...the robbery was still in progress...the incident in the alley was part of the armed robbery...and meets the criteria...

In Ohio?

...no, in Texas...like all the other answers in the thread...we don't give a hoot how they do it in Ohio...but we'll take the principles and learn what we can/should/shouldn't do HERE...if someone cares what the Castle Doctrine says in Ohio...google away!!!

I just thought I'd remind everyone that, while we were discussing legalities and what could happen to this guy or someone here in Texas under these same circumstances, he was in Ohio and we were discussing Texas law. I don't know how similar the laws in these circumstances are in Ohio.

For anyone who cares, under Ohio law it was a good shoot as well. If anyone cares enough, I could also dig out the statutes, but I'd prefer to give a quick recap.

There was still an armed robbery in progress with employees at risk. The owner, like any Ohio citizen, is allowed to make a citizen's felony arrest regardless of location. His actions are not considered to be "escalating" the situation, especially since there were still employees at risk. The BG shot first, so there is no question whatsoever he was justified in shooting, but IMO he would have also been justified in shooting first since an armed felon clearly places him in fear of death or serious bodily injury.

In Ohio, outside of a private residence home or car, a person has a duty to retreat if they can do so safely. Obviously, he couldn't retreat safely and still effect a citizen's arrest (How do you out run a bullet?). Also, in a private residence or vehicle and the bad guy not lawfully present, there is a presumption of innocence; since this happened outside of a business, the presumption of innocence does not exist which simply means if it went to trial the defendant needs to prove it was self defense.

Finally, under Ohio Law (O.R.C. 2307.60) there is civil immunity for any damages, so he is off the hook.

When I took my Texas CHL training, my Yoda-like instructor told us to memorize the phrase"aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery". It greatly simplifies things. Thank God I live in Texas!