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What is the best defense for such Flash Mob Robberies? Do you ask Arnold for his rotary machine gun?

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I watched both videos and I saw a group that could be called shoplifters or even looters, but I didn't see a flash mob.

May be the term flash mob is not accurate. Let us call it large number of gang thugs looting in the daylight.

Shop elsewhere, walk out.

AEA wrote:Shop elsewhere, walk out.

Too bad for the shop owner, he would be just helpless.

Beiruty wrote:

AEA wrote:Shop elsewhere, walk out.

Too bad for the shop owner, he would be just helpless.

I'm not going to shoot someone for shoplifting. You can do what you want.

snorri wrote:

Beiruty wrote:

AEA wrote:Shop elsewhere, walk out.

Too bad for the shop owner, he would be just helpless.

I'm not going to shoot someone for shoplifting. You can do what you want.

The way they have been doing it constitutes robbery, not shoplifting. Robbery is a felony.

Think about that.

OldCurlyWolf wrote:

snorri wrote:

Beiruty wrote:

AEA wrote:Shop elsewhere, walk out.

Too bad for the shop owner, he would be just helpless.

I'm not going to shoot someone for shoplifting. You can do what you want.

The way they have been doing it constitutes robbery, not shoplifting. Robbery is a felony.

Think about that.

So are you saying you'd shoot all of them?

Best defense is to have trap-in door system. With armored-glass for the counter.

Or me with the Hi-Power and 40 rounds!

Realistically, you'd only have to shoot one, maybe two.....the rest would scatter.

Here's a question... Let's say that you witness one of these events in progress and decide to intervene. (I'm not saying it's a good idea - just what-if.) It's not worth shooting the kid over a pair of jeans, so you tackle him and attempt to detain him. I believe you'd be within the law to do so - using non-lethal force to prevent theft. Most likely, his buddies are going to swarm on you, attacking you in a 10-on-1 beating. Fearing for your life, you draw and fire on the attackers. Would that be A) justified because of the disparity of force or B) unjustified because you initiated the confrontation by trying to detain the kid? I think we can all agree it would be a bad situation, but I'm curious as to the legal considerations.

Taking a wild guess-timate on the mentality of such groups, I would venture to say that exiting the store is both a good idea and achievable. I seriously doubt that the members of the group are interested in interfering with people leaving.

TrueFlog wrote:Here's a question... Let's say that you witness one of these events in progress and decide to intervene. (I'm not saying it's a good idea - just what-if.) It's not worth shooting the kid over a pair of jeans, so you tackle him and attempt to detain him. I believe you'd be within the law to do so - using non-lethal force to prevent theft. Most likely, his buddies are going to swarm on you, attacking you in a 10-on-1 beating. Fearing for your life, you draw and fire on the attackers. Would that be A) justified because of the disparity of force or B) unjustified because you initiated the confrontation by trying to detain the kid? I think we can all agree it would be a bad situation, but I'm curious as to the legal considerations.

You would probably win the Court case but you would be out a WHOLE LOT 'O MONEY!

OldCurlyWolf wrote:

snorri wrote:

Beiruty wrote:

AEA wrote:Shop elsewhere, walk out.

Too bad for the shop owner, he would be just helpless.

I'm not going to shoot someone for shoplifting. You can do what you want.

The way they have been doing it constitutes robbery, not shoplifting. Robbery is a felony.

Think about that.

No matter what you call it, I'm not going to shoot someone to defend a third party's property.

Really the key here is to have the situational awareness to make an informed decision based upon a practiced plan of action.

What are you worst case and best case scenarios? If you are observant you will see the group move in mass towards there target. Call the cops as soon as possible. Nothing like the sound of sirens approaching to make the less motivated actors leave the area. Hard core thugs will want to pillage their target, some not fearing arrest, others wanting the confrontation. Their tactics simplistic, use overwhelming force with the benefit of surprise. Break up their OODA loop and they have a tendency to become disorganized and disperse.

First and foremost is to GOTX - Get Off The X - moving / dynamic targets are not what these guys expect. Move away and perpendicular to what appears to be the target. Get on the cell phone asap and call 911. 911 is recorded and is a great source of post incident information. Don't down play the danger when describing the situation. Keep them on the phone until you are safe. Especially if you are a CHL be good at describing yourself. "I am a white male 5' 10" weight 200 pounds. Bald wearing a red shirt and tan slacks. I am armed and I have a CHL. (Unless you are in Ohio)"

If possible have a force continuum that is planned and practiced. Words - movement away from the trouble, Pepper spray, a good knife, and a firearm and a strong flash light. Controlled and orderly Retreat is the name of the game. Getting away is better than any confrontation.

Flash lights can be very valuable to get officer's attention when they arrive on the scene. His head will be on a swivel trying to start figuring out what is going on. A quick flash in his directions will get his attention and moving towards you. Also bad guys normally don't try to get police officers attentions.

Being Situational awareness also means knowing the area you are in. Through streets, Dead Ends, Circles, police stations, hospitals, banks, fire stations (Not necessarily in that order.

Have a plan, for if something happens to you, and then execute the plan. The plan will go bad no matter what, but a bad plan is still better than no plan.

If the plan is to egress on feet, what kind of shape are you in? Can you run a mile or 10 feet. Right now I have a bad knee so my ability to excape is limited, but it doesn't mean and can't get around a corner and disappear into the dumpster if need be. The harder the target the better odds that they will pick on some else.

The best offense is a good defense. Practice your plans. You will find that much of what you want to do will be much harder than it seems it will be.

Stay Aware : Stay Alive! Three "S" rule: Don't do Stupid things with Stupid People in Stupid Places.