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In the town of Pinnacle, North Carolina (middle of nowhere) in September, a couple of dopes robbed a convenience store. Dope #1 pointed a handgun at the clerk and pulled the trigger. The weapon did not fire. However, the weapon of a customer worked just fine.

The "alleged" robber was arrested when he showed up at a hospital emergency room with three gunshot wounds. He is charged with two counts felony robbery with a dangerous weapon and two counts of felony possession of a firearm by a convicted felon.

His accomplice also was arrested and charged.

http://www.mtairynews.com/view/full_sto ... _news_lead" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I guess racial integration has gone full-circle.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:I guess racial integration has gone full-circle.

- Jim

Crime has always been an equal opportunity employeer. The employee pool seems heavily slanted to the shallow end of the gene pool, however.

Another 9mm?

Elmo

Great column in same paper/web site about this and other similar local incidents of citizen self-defense

http://www.mtairynews.com/view/full_sto ... If-you-don" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;’t-want-to-get-shot--quit-robbing-people?

Then on Tuesday, a man who broke into a home in Union County died after being beaten with a baseball bat by the resident.

Ouch! That has to be a bad way to die.

- Jim

b322da wrote:Another 9mm?

Elmo

Does make you wonder. If I shoot a guy three times I would certainly hope that he could not limp into an emergency room.

And for anyone critiquing, I have a demonstrably high threshold for shooting in the first place.

from what I can make out reading between the lines, seems the convenience store husband shot low - guy was hit in arm, leg, and hip. Good guy was probably to the bad guy's side when he fired the shots. I kinda doubt any "standard" self-defense pistol round (.380, 9mm, .40, .45) would have put him immediately on the ground with that shot placement.

After watching two small deer bolt and run 25-30 yards following perfect behind-the-shoulder shots at 75 yards from a .270 rifle last year on my first and so far only hunt, I've developed a new appreciation for a living creature's ability to withstand the initial shock of even a very lethal rifle bullet wound. Quickly dropped the delusion of the "one-shot stop" - so popular in Hollywood mythology - from my mindset. At 100 yards, a .270 packs 2200+ foot pounds of energy. That's more than twice the ballistic energy of the vaunted .45 ACP 200-grain hollow point at point blank range from a 5-inch barrel.

austinrealtor wrote:from what I can make out reading between the lines, seems the convenience store husband shot low - guy was hit in arm, leg, and hip. Good guy was probably to the bad guy's side when he fired the shots. I kinda doubt any "standard" self-defense pistol round (.380, 9mm, .40, .45) would have put him immediately on the ground with that shot placement.

After watching two small deer bolt and run 25-30 yards following perfect behind-the-shoulder shots at 75 yards from a .270 rifle last year on my first and so far only hunt, I've developed a new appreciation for a living creature's ability to withstand the initial shock of even a very lethal rifle bullet wound. Quickly dropped the delusion of the "one-shot stop" - so popular in Hollywood mythology - from my mindset. At 100 yards, a .270 packs 2200+ foot pounds of energy. That's more than twice the ballistic energy of the vaunted .45 ACP 200-grain hollow point at point blank range from a 5-inch barrel.

My hope is for a group of 2-3 shots (pie plate size) that STOP the BG. I don't know why I would try for the shot placement described above unless I was forced to by circumstance (which he may have been).

Think of the geometry: Clerk is behind the counter. Robber is in front of the counter. Defender/shooter is somewhere to the rear.

He can't shoot from straight behind without putting the clerk (his wife) at risk. His other choices are limited by what is beyond the robber, either other customers or windows.

He also doesn't have a lot of time to think about it. The robber already pulled the trigger once and obviously has no inhibition about killing an innocent person.

Possibly shooting from the robber's side was the only choice that was dangerous to the robber and not to innocent parties.

Also, people don't stand still after the first time that they are shot. Putting three bullets into the robber without causing other injury or damage is pretty good work, IMHO. And it stopped the robbery and resulted in the robbers being arrested.

- Jim

Purplehood wrote:
My hope is for a group of 2-3 shots (pie plate size) that STOP the BG. I don't know why I would try for the shot placement described above unless I was forced to by circumstance (which he may have been).

I agree. But I'm guessing the circumstances were "Oh crap!!!" and a quick volley of three shots as fast as he could pull the trigger. If he was sitting further down the counter near the register, the total distance couldn't be more than 25 feet tops I would think. And perhaps he was still sitting when he fired (thus a lower angle on the bad guy?) .... I dunno, a lot of ifs .... just goes to show that you cannot expect great shot placement in a reactive scenario unless you have trained often to very quickly put shots COM in heightened anxiety situations (and even then it's not a sure thing). I think the guy did well to land all three shots on the bad guy.

In some ways, it's best for all involved that the bad guy bolted after being shot. Had he gone down, but was still conscious/moving and still had access to his FTF pistol .... might've had another potential Oklahoma pharmacist scenario (questions about at what point is the threat truly "stopped")

EDITED TO ADD: Seamus was posting as I was posting - I agree with his possible scenario too except I'm not sure about the "behind the robber" part (thought the story said shooter was also behind counter, just further down? but would have to go re-read)

I don't disagree with you AustinRealtor.

Shot placement is critical, but you do not necessarily get to choose precise placement. As Seamus noted, you don't necessarily get to shot at a stationary full frontal view. And most especially, people move. This is why instructors like Farnam and Suarez advocate high capacity semi-autos --- so you can use multiple shots (I think three doesn't really qualify as multiple ) and keep shooting until the threat is thoroughly defeated. And have some rounds left over for his buddy.

I've posted before about a guy I treated as the first first-responder on scene who inadvertently shot himself in the thigh with a .40 Speer Gold Dot. It went in his upper thigh, traveled lengthwise down the bone, and exited above his knee a good 8 or 10 inches later. HE DID NOT IMMEDIATELY REALIZE HE HAD SHOT HIMSELF. He thought he had just ND'd in his pocket and blew a hole in his pants. It wasn't until he noticed the fully expanded round laying on the floor that he suspected he might be shot. Even then he was hoping he could "walk it off" and actually went up and down some stairs before the pain and swelling kicked in.

It's not about 9mm or any other pistol caliber. It is about enough hits in enough of the right places.

We're missing the juicy detail here. He was charged with felon in possession of a firearm!!! Why didn't the law work? He isn't supposed to have the gun in the first place. Can't we just discuss these "issues" and pass laws to restrain firearm ownership and then go home and sleep well at night?



<tongue firmly in cheek>

SlickTX wrote:We're missing the juicy detail here. He was charged with felon in possession of a firearm!!! Why didn't the law work? He isn't supposed to have the gun in the first place. Can't we just discuss these "issues" and pass laws to restrain firearm ownership and then go home and sleep well at night?
<tongue firmly in cheek>

This is the only forum I have ever encountered where a smily face, e.g., doesn't work to say "I'm kidding." Maybe you have the secret, Slick. You reckon <tongue firmly in cheek> restrains argument when you are just joking? I guess we will see.

Elmo

Here's an earlier story about the dope. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=38231" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;