GA CHL w/ M & P 9MM kills gangsta pointing a Colt .45.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Let me start off by crediting the source of this story.

The author is Mr. Massad Ayoob, the title of his column is
"The Ayoob Files", and this story is my condensation of a true
life armed encounter between a GG and a BG.

The story that follows is more extensively detailed in "American
Handgunner" Magazine's November/December 2010 edition.
Since the GG in question fears for his safety from the BG's fellow
gang members, Mr. Ayoob stated that this incident happened in "a large
East Coast city". I remember when this story was first reported in
the news, and I know that the city in question is Atlanta, Georgia.

GG: 6'6", 310 pounds, musician, Georgia CHL. His gun was a Smith and Wesson
M & P, full size, 9MM, charged with 9 or more rounds of Speer Gold
Dots, JHP, 124 grain, standard pressure, not +P's.

BG: 29 years old, thug life tattoos, healed bullet wound from a previous
shooting. Weapon: Stolen Colt Officers Compact in .45, silver with
Pachmayr grips, loaded with only 4 rounds of .45 ACP, brand and style of ammo unknown.

What happened:
The GG and his GF had been to a bar. He drank moderately, but when they
left the bar about 11 PM, he was going to let her drive, just to be safe, since
she had consumed NO alcohol. She slipped into the driver's seat of his Ford
Ranger pickup. He sat in the passenger seat.

He saw a man approaching the car, and although he assumed that this was
a panhandler, he opened the glove compartment and put his Dad's standard
size, Smith and Wesson M & P 9MM in his lap.

The man approached the Ranger and pointed a .45 at the GG. The GG slammed
the Ranger door open and knocked the BG back. The GG jumped up out of his
passenger seat and the BG was pointing the .45 Colt at him.

The GG was in a standing position and pulled the trigger repeatedly because
the BG was still standing. The BG finally fell dead to the ground without
firing any rounds from his Colt.

The GG had fired 9 rounds of 9MM Speer Gold Dots, striking the BG with
8 of the rounds. One round went through the BG's left wrist, one round hit
him in the left jaw and tracked along the lower mandible, exiting behind
the left ear, without entering the brain.

The other 6 rounds struck the BG in the chest, piercing the heart and both
lungs. All expanded. One lodged in the spine, 3 came to rest in the BG's back,
just before exiting the skin, 1 went through the body and was caught in his jacket,
and 1 penetrated the COM, made it out his back, and fell to the pavement.

The DA chose to "no bill" the GG for this defensive encounter, but didn't let
the GG know that. The GG lawyered up, spent some money, and only after
sweating this for a while, found that the Fulton County, GA DA felt that it
was a justified shoot.

The GG had his Georgia CHL at the time of the incident, but had carried only
sometimes. The gun he used that night was borrowed from his dad. He now carries
24/7, and his GF got her Georgia CHL too.

For those who might want to cast aspersions on the GG needing 8 rounds of 9MM to drop
the BG: the GG's brother is a more experience handgunner and taught his musician
brother to fire until the threat was over.

An M & P doesn't have a particularly long trigger reset. The average man can fire 5 shots
in a second. The GG's quick firing of 9 rounds (just 1 missed the BG) probably took less
than 2 seconds. The BG could have died from any of the 6 COM shots, but it took his
corpse a while to let gravity take over.

The floor is open for discussion.

SIA

[Dan20703]

I'm glad good prevailed over evil and that's all I have to say about that.

[seamusTX]

The GG and his GF had been to a bar. He drank moderately, ...

And the DA didn't try to nail him to the wall. Imagine that.

For those who might want to cast aspersions on the GG needing 8 rounds of 9MM to drop
the BG: ...

It would be difficult not to empty your magazine into someone who is threatening you with a weapon. Cops do it all the time.

It's not explained why the driver didn't just punch the gas and get out of there, but there must have been a reason.

- Jim

[surprise_i'm_armed]

seamustx:
The reason that she didn't punch the gas is because she
was just getting settled into the driver's seat, and I don't
think she had turned the key yet to start the Ranger. They
had just entered the truck and sat down.

Another point which was not covered in the story is that,
IIRC, it is illegal under Georgia law to even leave your gun
in the car, while you are in a bar.

It was not stated whether the Ranger was parked in the
bar's parking lot, or if the GG wasn't hassled by the cops
due to the truck being parked in a lot that was not owned
by the bar.

Or a further explanation could be that the Atlanta LEO
realized that the BG was 86'd by a GG CHL, and it was
obvious that 1 less gangsta is good news for all good people.
So the LEO let it slide for the GG's benefit.

IANAL, especially not a Georgia lawyer. :-)

SIA

[dicion]

The GG and his GF had been to a bar. He drank moderately, ...

And the DA didn't try to nail him to the wall. Imagine that.

For those who might want to cast aspersions on the GG needing 8 rounds of 9MM to drop
the BG: ...

It would be difficult not to empty your magazine into someone who is threatening you with a weapon. Cops do it all the time.

It's not explained why the driver didn't just punch the gas and get out of there, but there must have been a reason.

- Jim

If they had just sat down, maybe the car wasn't started yet? Maybe they were in a parking lot, and couldn't get out quickly? As you said, there's probably a reason, but it is immaterial. I only assume that GA is another state that has no duty to retreat, either that, or the DA believed that retreat would have been difficult from whatever situation they were in.

Either way, good shoot, another BG taken care of, and more people learned the lesson of 24/7 or guess right.

[The Annoyed Man]

It's not explained why the driver didn't just punch the gas and get out of there, but there must have been a reason.

- Jim

Fear will make you do strange things.... deer in the headlights, and all that... but you're right. Leaving post haste would have been the smart thing to do, if at all possible.

[i8godzilla]

BG: 29 years old, thug life tattoos, healed bullet wound from a previous shooting. Weapon: Stolen Colt Officers Compact in .45, silver with Pachmayr grips, loaded with only 4 rounds of .45 ACP, brand and style of ammo unknown.

SIA

Did they at least return the Colt back to its owner?

[dicion]

BG: 29 years old, thug life tattoos, healed bullet wound from a previous shooting. Weapon: Stolen Colt Officers Compact in .45, silver with Pachmayr grips, loaded with only 4 rounds of .45 ACP, brand and style of ammo unknown.

SIA

Did they at least return the Colt back to its owner?

I was thinking that exact same thing too.. I just didn't want to seem insensitive that I was considering the fate of the gun more important than the fate of the BG..

I sure hope he didn't drop it and marr it up too bad when he got shot... that would be a shame.

[aaangel]

GG needing 8 rounds of 9MM to drop
the BG:

that's it i'm moving to .40

[esxmarkc]

Did they at least return the Colt back to its owner?

Along with 4 brand new unused bullets no doubt!

Did anyone else here read Chris Byrd's "Thank God I Had a Gun" ? This one reminds me of the Pizza delivery guy that EMPTIED his 9mm into the BG that had is gun already out and up approaching him from behind. The poor BG didn't even have a round chambered.

That one is a VERY interesting one to discuss. The pizza guy broke every post-shooting rule that we have ever discussed on here:

He reached down and took the BG's gun.
He immediately left the scene.
He didn't stay to render aid.
He talked to police prior to lawyering up.
And he still got no-billed.

[sjfcontrol]

BG: 29 years old, thug life tattoos, healed bullet wound from a previous shooting. Weapon: Stolen Colt Officers Compact in .45, silver with Pachmayr grips, loaded with only 4 rounds of .45 ACP, brand and style of ammo unknown.

SIA

Did they at least return the Colt back to its owner?

I was thinking that exact same thing too.. I just didn't want to seem insensitive that I was considering the fate of the gun more important than the fate of the BG..

I sure hope he didn't drop it and marr it up too bad when he got shot... that would be a shame.

Hmmm, would it be TOO insensitive to hope that the BG didn't get any of his blood on the gun? No, I've decided it isn't...

[Katygunnut]

Why did the BG only have 4 bullets in his gun? Could he not afford to buy more? A box of 50 WWB is less than $25 at wally World for cryin out loud. Same question as to why the GG had less than a full mag. Carry a sub-compact if you don't need the extra rounds.

I second the concern for the stolen gun. Hope it made it back to the rightful owner without too much wear or damage. Never tried to clean dried blood off a gun, but it seems like this could get a bit tricky if the blood got down in the trigger mechanism, etc. Probably would require a full disassembly, at least. Also, hopefully the vehicle door didn't get too dented from hitting the BG. Probably less than the deductible, so the GG would have to eat that cost.

Other than that, I don't see too much of interest in this story. Maybe I am missing something.

[seamusTX]

Why did the BG only have 4 bullets in his gun?

The people that are often called "disadvantaged yutes" live circumscribed lives. They don't know where to go or how to do things outside of a very limited area.

It seems many criminals do not understand how firearms work and have not shot much, if at all. I posted another thread where a robber pulled the trigger of a pistol that did not shoot. I don't know why. Maybe he didn't know how to chamber a round: viewtopic.php?f=108&t=38779" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I remember reading an article about poor kids who lived on Manhattan Island in New York City. Most had never been off the island, even though it is just a subway ride. They had never been to the zoo, a museum, or a shopping mall.

- Jim

[Pawpaw]

Why did the BG only have 4 bullets in his gun? Could he not afford to buy more? A box of 50 WWB is less than $25 at wally World for cryin out loud. Same question as to why the GG had less than a full mag. Carry a sub-compact if you don't need the extra rounds.

I second the concern for the stolen gun. Hope it made it back to the rightful owner without too much wear or damage. Never tried to clean dried blood off a gun, but it seems like this could get a bit tricky if the blood got down in the trigger mechanism, etc. Probably would require a full disassembly, at least. Also, hopefully the vehicle door didn't get too dented from hitting the BG. Probably less than the deductible, so the GG would have to eat that cost.

Other than that, I don't see too much of interest in this story. Maybe I am missing something.

Detail stripping a 1911 is trivially easy and quick. You really only need a screwdriver to remove the grip screws. For the rest, the parts you remove can be used as tools for further disassembly.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

i8godzilla, et al:
There was no mention made in the story as to whether the
stolen Colt was returned to its owner, kept for evidence, shredded,
or what.

I would think if the LEO's could trace its serial number, they would
return it to the owner if local, or at least send a registered letter to
wherever it came from.

***********************************************************************************
By the way, IIRC, the pizza man who unloaded on the BG:

he shot the BG multiple times, the perp fell to the ground, and some of
his dying words to the pizza man were "I only wanted a pizza."
Ironic isn't it - to try to rob a working man at gunpoint for a pizza and a few
dollars, but losing his life in the process. Priorities, people, priorities. Sheesh.

I believe this happened in Indianapolis, Indiana.

SIA