TexasCHLforum.com

I know we have seen this before, where a trespasser is at a locked door trying to get in and the potential victim fires through the door, killing or wounding the robber.

https://news.yahoo.com/wife-man-jail-ki ... 36781.html

This is Oklahoma where the business owner is charged with murder.

Unfortunately this case has a racial component which adds another issue.

I’m remembering a drunk man coming home to the wrong home maybe even being let out by a taxi at the wrong house.

There was a pretty famous case in Houston in the 80s. The guy hammering at the front and back doors was a confused foreign tourist. He scared the guy inside the house bad enough that he blasted him through the door. Homeowner was cleared, although there was a big stink about it it the time that he got off.

In general, I’d say the person that shoots through the door must be held to account. Once the door is breached, fire to stop the threat. Use your firearm for the purpose it was made, to stop a threat of imminent loss of life or property. Behind a door, you are not under imminent threat of loss of life nor are your possessions in peril, unless of course the perp is firing a weapon at you or burglarizing your vehicle or outbuilding.

Taking race out of it, if a person is trying to breach the door to get you or your family- and knows you are inside... waiting for him to actually get in and then hoping your gun stops him instantly is a little more than I'd expect from anyone without a lot of training and a large caliber rifle/shotgun.

flechero wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:49 pm Taking race out of it, if a person is trying to breach the door to get you or your family- and knows you are inside... waiting for him to actually get in and then hoping your gun stops him instantly is a little more than I'd expect from anyone without a lot of training and a large caliber rifle/shotgun.

flechero wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:49 pm Taking race out of it, if a person is trying to breach the door to get you or your family- and knows you are inside... waiting for him to actually get in and then hoping your gun stops him instantly is a little more than I'd expect from anyone without a lot of training and a large caliber rifle/shotgun.

Tex. Penal Code §9.02 wrote: Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

• (1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and

• (2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
  
  • (A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
    
    (B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
  (b) The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
  
  • (1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:
    
    • (A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
      
      (B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
      
      (C) was committing or attempting to commit an offense described by Subsection (a)(2)(B);
    (2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
    
    (3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.

I'm not saying shooting through a door is always a good policy, but it can be fact-specific. A relevant section of the Penal Code is set out above.

Chas.

There was a pretty famous case in Houston in the 80s. The guy hammering at the front and back doors was a confused foreign tourist.

Actually I remembered it slightly wrong. It was in 1994. I looked it up to see how it was finally resolved. There was no indictment of the shooter, but he settled a wrongful death suit brought by the wife of the man who was killed. Here's more details at

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 91571.html

and

https://apnews.com/article/6b1f8f84243b ... f78d0158b5

Going simply on what was presented at the link, State of OK is not looking good here. Could be more to it than presented.

There have been several much more recent (as in the last 10 years or so) "person at the wrong house pounding on/breaking thru door of wrong house and getting shot" cases in Texas, and as I recall all resolved in favor of the person in the house doing the shooting. Probably listed in the DGU reports forum.

Charles L. Cotton wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:58 pm

Tex. Penal Code §9.02 wrote: Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

• (1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and

• (2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
  
  • (A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
    
    (B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
  (b) The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
  
  • (1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:
    
    • (A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
      
      (B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
      
      (C) was committing or attempting to commit an offense described by Subsection (a)(2)(B);
    (2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
    
    (3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.

I'm not saying shooting through a door is always a good policy, but it can be fact-specific. A relevant section of the Penal Code is set out above.

Chas.

Thanks for that Chas. It looks pretty clear to me. While there could be mitigating facts, the legal presumption is that it is reasonable to use force in such a situation.

I think this is the right policy in any event. Why would I have to wait until the door was open if I thought I was already in reasonable fear for my life? Further, shooting through the door may be better in some cases (less danger to the person inside--which is what matters, and possibly better for the person being shot...they can still run, more likelihood of a miss, etc.).

https://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php ... drunk+door

Here is the one I remembered from a while back. Firefighter and veteran came home drunk was left off at the wrong house, banged on the door the 64 yo woman alone told him to leave and that she had a gun. She fired through the door and killed him.

Appears not charged.

https://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php ... drunk+door

Here is another. This one is very complicated. Homeowner charged. Shot a girl who knocked on his door late at night, drunk. Fired a shotgun to her face through a locked screen door. Racial component. Detroit.

https://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php ... oting+door

Here the bad guys fired through the locked door from the outside. So yes your life is in danger just standing at the door.

https://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php ... t=knocking

And this one.

On the last two the news stories have been taken down, but you can get a gist from what we have written about.

I had one instance years ago of this happening. I was out of town on a work project and was in a hotel. Once where you can park your car right out front of your door. (Yea I know, company were cheapskates). anyway around 1am some idiot started banging on my door and yelling. I could hear some others outside and it was pretty obvious that there were a bunch of drunk idiots outside. I was able to look out the window to see 2 or 3 guys standing around and laughing and finally could understand they were calling for somebody with a different name. I had my pistol with me and hidden behind my back I opened the door and they were like OH.. Sorry Dude.. though you were one of our friends... No prob, closed the door and they went away... I was probably only in my mid 20's at the time.. Glad I wasn't the type to just start blasting away... Probably shouldn't have opened the door either, but it seemed to be fairly obvious what was going on once I had a moment.....

What complicates this case is the fact that Mr. Bratcher's business license to grow medical Marijuana had lapsed, so the state considered him a drug dealer. Had he made the $100,000 in building improvements needed to maintain his business, he would have been justified in his use of force. But shooting someone that during the commission of a felony (his grow operation), he not afforded that protection.

It's happened here in Texas a couple of times in recent yeas. We've even discussed them on this forum.

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/05/us/05dallas.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/off-duty-h ... -neighbor/