Over-policing plus justified fear of impersonators

[Cedar Park Dad]

Way overboard for a potential of minors possessing a supposed12-pack of beer. Even if they are trying to get evidence to arrest the supplier, it was stupid to bring guns into play. I caught quite a few under age people with beer back years ago. If they were cooperative and not intoxicated, they usually walked with no beer and a good warning the first time.

Why are these guys targetting teenagers? have they so taken down every other threat that they can now concentrate on teenagers with a supposed 12 pack. Isn't that what the local constabulary is for???

Why are we leaping onto hoods, trying to break windows etc? I'm surprised no one was shot with this band of supposed law enforcement. Again people should be fired and again absolutely nothing will happen. George Orwell indeed.
Pick up that can citizen.

For many people the use of Alcohol by minors is a major issue complete with lobbying groups and major political muscle. The idea that the agency responsible for alcohol regulation in the State should ignore minors with alcohol is at the least politically unrealistic.

Then we return to someone calling for firings without even an accusation of laws broken or policies violated.

"I was following policy" is the excuse of the decade. I'll avoid the immediate Godwin reference.
Is it policy to jump on hoods, swarm teenagers and pull guns on teenegers over... beer?
If so then:
1. The policies need to change
2. The people thinking up the policies need to be fired for being that stupid.
3. The people implementing the pollicies need to be fired for not having the intelligence to realize how stupid they are.

WOW, fired over one news article that doesn't tell the whole story? I would hope you would want a thorough investigation if you were alleged to do something wrong .

I'm pretty sure that most people, if ever mentioned in a news article that is bad, will be fired without delay.

[anygunanywhere]

[That's absurd and unrealistic. IMHO

Not to pick on just you, ( I often qualify)...but "IMHO" has to be the most out of place abbreviation used on any forum....but certainly, in your case, the "H" just doesn't fit!

You may be right but what should I change the H to and would people get it. IMEO? IMCO? IMIO?

IMTWOUOWIODLEOAWNCTEWTNIO

Anygunanywhere

well, I've waited for someone to ask the question....c'mon Anygun...just got to know what it means...

Actually I forget but to paraphrase myself it has something to do with blindly blaming the students for reacting when the ABC agents swarmed them and not providing constructive criticism of the agents.

Having had my share of minor's possession stops when I was in my formative years, if I had been swarmed as these were I can't say I would have reacted in a calm manner. I also commend them for leaving and calling 911 like they did. I find no fault there.

The ABC agents should have known better.

Anygunanywhere

[Cedar Park Dad]

I'll note back in ancient times when I was younger, I was passing bottle of water to a youngster in the back. Police lit us up. They asked what was in the bottle (I think open container laws may have been very recently put in place).

When they saw the youngster they mellowed quickly. We also offered them the bottle.
The whole thing lasted maybe 90 seconds. It was professional and businesslike. More than half of that was the officer talking the youngster to calm him (and us as the youngster was starting to freak) down. After he was calm (this included a promise by the officer to kill all the lights and sirens for the youngster before he left so he could "see the show") the officer said good night and split (to a great cacaphony of noise and lights much to our boy's delight). It was all good and none of us had any negative feelings about it.

[VMI77]

I can guarantee you one thing. If they had shot that girl the parents' lawsuit would have cleaned out their department's budget. And that tells you all you need to know. They were wrong, wrong, wrong, and they need to face that, think about what they've done and improve their thinking about approaching suspects.

Does it sound to you like this department is fulfilling their stated mission?

The Virginia Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control (ABC) is a state-run agency whose mission is to safely and responsibly administer the sale and consumption of alcohol. ABC special agents have full police powers in Virginia. The agency's vision (as proclaimed on its website) is to "enhance the quality of life for Virginia's citizens" in carrying out its duties.

There was nothing safe or responsible about what they did.

Don't waste your breath. There are some people that are authoritarians at heart and have never met an application of authority they didn't like. Anybody who thinks this abuse of police authority is reasonable would be very comfortable living in North Korea.

[Panda]

On one hand we have college girls buying water and cookie dough.

On the other hand we have people frightening those college girls by screaming at them, pounding on windows, and waving at least one gun around.


Decisions. Decisions.

[Cedar Park Dad]

On one hand we have college girls buying water and cookie dough.

On the other hand we have people frightening those college girls by screaming at them, pounding on windows, and waving at least one gun around.


Decisions. Decisions.

Maybe they really just wanted the coookie dough>

What happens in this scenario if that were Texas and those college gals were legally armed?

[mamabearCali]

It was in VA so those girls could have been legally armed (open carry legal for 18+). Had then been armed I think it would have gone down much much worse. Poor things.

[Cedar Park Dad]

It was in VA so those girls could have been legally armed (open carry legal for 18+). Had then been armed I think it would have gone down much much worse. Poor things.

Exactly. When thinking about this situation, put it in that light as well.

[mamabearCali]

On The VA gun forum I am a part of we are all sick to our stomachs over this. This could have happened to any one of us. A bunch of people run out at someone shouting un-intelligable things in the dark, waving things around, jumping on people cars.....yeah that is not good. Could have so easily been a lethal series of mistakes. Then what?

[Cedar Park Dad]

On The VA gun forum I am a part of we are all sick to our stomachs over this. This could have happened to any one of us. A bunch of people run out at someone shouting un-intelligable things in the dark, waving things around, jumping on people cars.....yeah that is not good. Could have so easily been a lethal series of mistakes. Then what?

Hope you have good life insurance?

[mamabearCali]

I have good life insurance, but the point is citizens should not be put in this situation. If the LEO's want to interact with me, fine, but they need to be properly attired and identify themselves clearly from the start in a calm manner. That protects them and me. If a LEO wants to be undercover, then that is where he needs to stay (Absent life and limb situations) until a uniformed officer arrives. None of this "read my mind and know that I am a LEO because I am acting in an aggressive manner.

[Cedar Park Dad]

I have good life insurance, but the point is citizens should not be put in this situation. If the LEO's want to interact with me, fine, but they need to be properly attired and identify themselves clearly from the start in a calm manner. That protects them and me. If a LEO wants to be undercover, then that is where he needs to stay (Absent life and limb situations) until a uniformed officer arrives. None of this "read my mind and know that I am a LEO because I am acting in an aggressive manner.

While I don't disagree evidently they do. Now I could see this for more serious offenses with uniformed/marked police and vehicles arriving Hollywood style, or in better environs (inside a store or something). But for a beer, with seven unknown persons advancing. Its...wo.

Still trying to figure out why they needed a whole pack of officers to take down Autumn and her sororiety compatriots. Where were they all hiding? Where they hanging on the corner like thugs and just wandered over. Whats going on?

Edit: is this offense even a misdemeanor?

[mamabearCali]

I have good life insurance, but the point is citizens should not be put in this situation. If the LEO's want to interact with me, fine, but they need to be properly attired and identify themselves clearly from the start in a calm manner. That protects them and me. If a LEO wants to be undercover, then that is where he needs to stay (Absent life and limb situations) until a uniformed officer arrives. None of this "read my mind and know that I am a LEO because I am acting in an aggressive manner.

While I don't disagree evidently they do. Now I could see this for more serious offenses with uniformed/marked police and vehicles arriving Hollywood style, or in better environs (inside a store or something). But for a beer, with seven unknown persons advancing. Its...wo.

Still trying to figure out why they needed a whole pack of officers to take down Autumn and her sororiety compatriots. Where were they all hiding? Where they hanging on the corner like thugs and just wandered over. Whats going on?

Edit: is this offense even a misdemeanor?

carrying water and cookie dough out to a car? not at all. I think if it was alcohol it would be a misdemeanor, but one nearly every college kid a know committed.

[Cedar Park Dad]

Has anyone ever been arrested for that? (not the shop owners - the teenagers) who weren't being a nuisance in the first place?

[mamabearCali]

Has anyone ever been arrested for that? (not the shop owners - the teenagers) who weren't being a nuisance in the first place?

Not that I have heard of....if the LEO has a burr you know where, he will sometimes write a ticket, but usually not. Usually it is just "give me that....now get out of here and don't do that again." I have really only ever seen tickets issued to places that serve alcohol to minors, usually the minor is not ticketed.