TX: one dead at shooting during police protest in downtown Austin tonight

[Paladin]

The picture he circled and red lines the angle of the barrel does appear that the rifle is in the low ready, which is not a threatening manner.

Foster moved in closer before he was shot. Perry's video statement indicates that the rifle was pointed at his vehicle. If a masked psycho, like the one explicitly shown in Foster's last video interview, walking in the road approached my vehicle in the night time as part of a continuing nationwide riot and pointed his loaded AK-47 at my vehicle... I don't have to make a lot of assumptions about his intentions. Perry's car was surrounded by rioters, so driving away was not an option.

I train students how to shoot a rifle starting on safe at the low ready and hit the A-zone of a USPSA target at 7 yards in less than 1 second. Some students are even faster. The distance was way under 7 yards. If you had a outstanding 1 second draw from concealment, or a solid 1 second response from ready... you shoot eachother at the same time...a tie means that you still loose. You are DEAD DEAD DEAD if you wait to draw against the drop. At TAC-CON 2023 I watched something like 10-out-of-10 trained defenders "die" in force-on-force scenarios trying that strategy of defense. Gabe Suarez calls it the "Suicide Drill". Suicide is exactly what it is. It was honestly hard to watch.

[rtschl]

The picture he circled and red lines the angle of the barrel does appear that the rifle is in the low ready, which is not a threatening manner.

Foster moved in closer before he was shot. Perry's video statement indicates that the rifle was pointed at his vehicle. If a masked psycho, like the one explicitly shown in Foster's last video interview, walking in the road approached my vehicle in the night time as part of a continuing nationwide riot and pointed his loaded AK-47 at my vehicle... I don't have to make a lot of assumptions about his intentions. Perry's car was surrounded by rioters, so driving away was not an option.

I train students how to shoot a rifle starting on safe at the low ready and hit the A-zone of a USPSA target at 7 yards in less than 1 second. Some students are even faster. The distance was way under 7 yards. If you had a outstanding 1 second draw from concealment, or a solid 1 second response from ready... you shoot eachother at the same time...a tie means that you still loose. You are DEAD DEAD DEAD if you wait to draw against the drop. At TAC-CON 2023 I watched something like 10-out-of-10 trained defenders "die" in force-on-force scenarios trying that strategy of defense. Gabe Suarez calls it the "Suicide Drill". Suicide is exactly what it is. It was honestly hard to watch.

I absolutely agree with you and kind of my point about WHO is carrying can help determine possible threat intentions. I do think it probably was a deadly threat situation for Perry. But Branca's point was there was no evidence or testimony presented of Foster pointing his weapon at Perry, as all of the eyewitness testimony contradicted Perry statement to Police. But I think they all were Antifa/BLM rioters like Foster. I don't know how much credibility they should be given. I wish the trial had been televised.

[Paladin]

I wish the trial had been televised.

Agree completely

[Grayling813]

The picture he circled and red lines the angle of the barrel does appear that the rifle is in the low ready, which is not a threatening manner.

Foster moved in closer before he was shot. Perry's video statement indicates that the rifle was pointed at his vehicle. If a masked psycho, like the one explicitly shown in Foster's last video interview, walking in the road approached my vehicle in the night time as part of a continuing nationwide riot and pointed his loaded AK-47 at my vehicle... I don't have to make a lot of assumptions about his intentions. Perry's car was surrounded by rioters, so driving away was not an option.

I train students how to shoot a rifle starting on safe at the low ready and hit the A-zone of a USPSA target at 7 yards in less than 1 second. Some students are even faster. The distance was way under 7 yards. If you had a outstanding 1 second draw from concealment, or a solid 1 second response from ready... you shoot eachother at the same time...a tie means that you still loose. You are DEAD DEAD DEAD if you wait to draw against the drop. At TAC-CON 2023 I watched something like 10-out-of-10 trained defenders "die" in force-on-force scenarios trying that strategy of defense. Gabe Suarez calls it the "Suicide Drill". Suicide is exactly what it is. It was honestly hard to watch.

That picture was one partial second of an event. As Paladin noted above a lot can happen in the next second. Show me a picture of Perry's handgun being fired at the same instant the AK is at low ready then there's something to discuss.

[rtschl]

That picture was one partial second of an event. As Paladin noted above a lot can happen in the next second. Show me a picture of Perry's handgun being fired at the same instant the AK is at low ready then there's something to discuss.

I don't think any of us here would disagree with that. But once the prosecution presents it's evidence, the defense has to counter with evidence or testimony and it appears they did not, but I do not know for sure. This opens a lot of questions for me about the defense. Were they able to impeach any of the eyewitness testimony? Did they present the exculpatory evidence at trial that was withheld in the Grand Jury?

This is where the saying that it's better to be judged by twelve than to be carried by six appears applicable but costly, both financially and his freedom for now. He's in an unfriendly county and city and even though cleared by police, the DA's office found his social media posts and had eyewitness testimony (albeit most likely from fellow rioters). His posts along with the eyewitnesses, made it very difficult for Perry and his defense, especially since no one corroborated his statements to the police, nor was their video or pictures that did so.

I'm curious what the US Army has done yet. I imagine this administration will court martial him even if pardoned.

This case needs to be a lesson to us all, no matter the final outcome. Kurt Schlichter's three points are spot on too:

[03Lightningrocks]

That picture was one partial second of an event. As Paladin noted above a lot can happen in the next second. Show me a picture of Perry's handgun being fired at the same instant the AK is at low ready then there's something to discuss.

I don't think any of us here would disagree with that. But once the prosecution presents it's evidence, the defense has to counter with evidence or testimony and it appears they did not, but I do not know for sure. This opens a lot of questions for me about the defense. Were they able to impeach any of the eyewitness testimony? Did they present the exculpatory evidence at trial that was withheld in the Grand Jury?

This is where the saying that it's better to be judged by twelve than to be carried by six appears applicable but costly, both financially and his freedom for now. He's in an unfriendly county and city and even though cleared by police, the DA's office found his social media posts and had eyewitness testimony (albeit most likely from fellow rioters). His posts along with the eyewitnesses, made it very difficult for Perry and his defense, especially since no one corroborated his statements to the police, nor was their video or pictures that did so.

I'm curious what the US Army has done yet. I imagine this administration will court martial him even if pardoned.

This case needs to be a lesson to us all, no matter the final outcome. Kurt Schlichter's three points are spot on too:

Maybe his posts are in this thread but I can't find them. Could you post a copy of his posts? The internet sure has changed the nature of criminal prosecution. They will even use things posted before you ever utilized self defense when they really want to get you.

[philip964]

“The testimony confirming Perry's anger toward protesters came on the third day of the trial as prosecutors displayed text messages and social media comments showing that he thought about killing them. "I might have to kill a few people on my way to work, they are rioting outside my apartment complex," Perry wrote to a friend in June of 2020. "I might go to Dallas to shoot looters," he wrote on another occasion. Perry also encouraged violence in a variety of social media posts.

In addition, Perry speculated about how he might get away with such a killing – by claiming self-defense, as he is now doing. Prosecutors presented a Facebook Messen­ger chat between Perry and a friend, Michael Holcomb, which occurred two weeks before he shot Foster. In it, Perry argued that shooting protesters was legal if it was in self-defense. Holcomb, who was called to the stand Wednesday afternoon, seemed to try to talk Perry down. "Aren't you a CDL holder too?" he asked, referring to the men's licenses to carry concealed handguns. "We went through the same training ... Shooting after creating an event where you have to shoot, is not a good shoot."”

This was in an Austin newspaper.

This was on Yahoo about a shooting after a car accident in Dallas.

Again two people with guns. One apparently drunk.

https://nextshark.com/murder-charge-dro ... -jin-shin/

Charges were brought and then dismissed.

[clarionite]

“The testimony confirming Perry's anger toward protesters came on the third day of the trial as prosecutors displayed text messages and social media comments showing that he thought about killing them. "I might have to kill a few people on my way to work, they are rioting outside my apartment complex," Perry wrote to a friend in June of 2020. "I might go to Dallas to shoot looters," he wrote on another occasion. Perry also encouraged violence in a variety of social media posts.

In addition, Perry speculated about how he might get away with such a killing – by claiming self-defense, as he is now doing. Prosecutors presented a Facebook Messen­ger chat between Perry and a friend, Michael Holcomb, which occurred two weeks before he shot Foster. In it, Perry argued that shooting protesters was legal if it was in self-defense. Holcomb, who was called to the stand Wednesday afternoon, seemed to try to talk Perry down. "Aren't you a CDL holder too?" he asked, referring to the men's licenses to carry concealed handguns. "We went through the same training ... Shooting after creating an event where you have to shoot, is not a good shoot."”

This was in an Austin newspaper.

This was on Yahoo about a shooting after a car accident in Dallas.

Again two people with guns. One apparently drunk.

https://nextshark.com/murder-charge-dro ... -jin-shin/

Charges were brought and then dismissed.

Must be more to the story, because it's hard to believe that would get dropped based off what was said in the story. One man gets in an accident. He's there alone. He gets surrounded by 8 people, they start assaulting him and take his keys and prevent him from getting to his vehicle. He then gets his gun. The story says he never raised it or fired it, but even if he had raised it by that point I believe it would be justified in an 8 on 1 situation where they've already assaulted him. The story has to be missing quite a bit or misleading.

[Flightmare]

Interesting insight from some defense attorneys

[rtschl]

Maybe his posts are in this thread but I can't find them. Could you post a copy of his posts? The internet sure has changed the nature of criminal prosecution. They will even use things posted before you ever utilized self defense when they really want to get you.

Here's link from Austin TV station with Perry's social media timeline:
https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/a-look ... perry-case

[Jose_in_Dallas]

“The testimony confirming Perry's anger toward protesters came on the third day of the trial as prosecutors displayed text messages and social media comments showing that he thought about killing them. "I might have to kill a few people on my way to work, they are rioting outside my apartment complex," Perry wrote to a friend in June of 2020. "I might go to Dallas to shoot looters," he wrote on another occasion. Perry also encouraged violence in a variety of social media posts.

In addition, Perry speculated about how he might get away with such a killing – by claiming self-defense, as he is now doing. Prosecutors presented a Facebook Messen­ger chat between Perry and a friend, Michael Holcomb, which occurred two weeks before he shot Foster. In it, Perry argued that shooting protesters was legal if it was in self-defense. Holcomb, who was called to the stand Wednesday afternoon, seemed to try to talk Perry down. "Aren't you a CDL holder too?" he asked, referring to the men's licenses to carry concealed handguns. "We went through the same training ... Shooting after creating an event where you have to shoot, is not a good shoot."”

This was in an Austin newspaper.

I hadn't heard of this before and it's pretty damning if he did that. And another sign of don't say anything on the internet/text messages that you won't be willing to repeat in a court of law.

This was on Yahoo about a shooting after a car accident in Dallas.

Again two people with guns. One apparently drunk.

https://nextshark.com/murder-charge-dro ... -jin-shin/

Charges were brought and then dismissed.

I read about this when the story first hit and thought, wow, what an example of being at the wrong place at the wrong time and not having better training on how to handle the situation. I heard the verdict earlier this week (??) and thought, it just gets worse. And the "victim" is not alive to defend himself in a court of law and this guy gets away with it. Two shootings on opposite ends of the scale as to the outcome. Very sad what our justice system is coming to.

[03Lightningrocks]

Maybe his posts are in this thread but I can't find them. Could you post a copy of his posts? The internet sure has changed the nature of criminal prosecution. They will even use things posted before you ever utilized self defense when they really want to get you.

Here's link from Austin TV station with Perry's social media timeline:
https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/a-look ... perry-case

[Jose_in_Dallas]

Must be more to the story, because it's hard to believe that would get dropped based off what was said in the story. One man gets in an accident. He's there alone. He gets surrounded by 8 people, they start assaulting him and take his keys and prevent him from getting to his vehicle. He then gets his gun. The story says he never raised it or fired it, but even if he had raised it by that point I believe it would be justified in an 8 on 1 situation where they've already assaulted him. The story has to be missing quite a bit or misleading.

Exactly what I'm thinking other than the fact that the "victim" is no longer alive to defend himself in a court of law. Not sure what else could have been done differently other than to drive off. But with a mob, no telling what might have happened from there. Wrong place at the wrong time.

[bbhack]

I'm having a very difficult time believing there is no definitive video evidence in the Perry case. Not that it matters at this point, but given the crowd (rioters) makeup, if someone had such, it would not have come out.

[Paladin]

I'm having a very difficult time believing there is no definitive video evidence in the Perry case. Not that it matters at this point, but given the crowd (rioters) makeup, if someone had such, it would not have come out.

Agree. There are criminal implications for individuals in the riot beyond Foster. SGT Perry was shot at by another rioter. Detective David Fugitt indicated that the witnesses were changing their stories. I imagine ANTIFA buried the definitive video evidence that would have lead to criminally implicate other ANTIFA members.