Legal problems:Wife couldn't shoot,FMJ was used,back entries

[surprise_i'm_armed]

http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMG ... er/AHSO12/

The above link may or may not work for the rest of the forum readers. I had to give my name and email addy
to gain access to the digital version of the Sept/Oct 2012 "American Handgunner" magazine's digital edition.

The above link is to the first page of a story by Mr. Massad Ayoob and details the legal problems encountered
by an armed citizen who was preventing the death of his daughter, his wife, and himself at the hands of his daughter's
psychotic aggressive husband.

You may read the whole story above, but here's my summary of what happened. I am providing this story to all y'all
to show how bad decisions can lead to your loss of life, liberty, and money if you aren't careful.

An aggressive ex-husband (or soon to be?) was beating the mother of his child. She was able to call her parents at home.
Her dad grabbed his Ruger P90 DC, a single stack .45 semi-automatic pistol. The parents raced to the scene where the
crazy man was attacking their daughter.

The father and the BG started wrestling, were on the ground, and the younger man was beating his FIL senseless.

The wife of the GG ran to their van, retrieved the Ruger, and hit the BG several times in the head with it (using it as a club).

Since the beating was getting worse, she decided that she needed to shoot the BG. She pointed it at him, pulled the
trigger and ..... nothing!! Her husband didn't believe in carrying one in the chamber, so no round was available.

She didn't know how to use her husband's pistol, so she didn't know to rack the slide to get one in the pipe.

The BG turned at that point and was going to seize the Ruger from his former MIL.

The MIL tossed the pistol to her husband, who racked the slide, and fired rapidly at the aggressor, who turned at
the first shot. He was hit 5 times and died quickly.

The Missouri DA was not in favor of citizens with guns and arrested the GG for murder. Part of her reasoning was that
the BG was unarmed, plus some of the entry wounds were to his back.

Another problem with this case was that the husband had charged the Ruger with .45 FMJ, 230 grain ammo. All shots
went through and through the BG. None remained in the BG's body, but none of the rounds hit anyone else. They could
have hit the GG when the wife tried to fire at the BG on top of her husband.

A professional firearms expert testified for the defense at the trial. He explained that the Ruger P90 DC .45 has a short
reset trigger, and that it would be easy for the GG under stress to fire 5 rounds in something like 1 second. He explained
to the jury that the GG's quick firing at a man who was initially facing him is what resulted in some of the wounds being
in the BG's back.

The GG was eventually found not guilty, but that verdict cost him a lot of money and anguish.

Lessons to be learned from this man's mistakes:
1. Teach your wife to shoot any weapons you own.
2. Carry one in the pipe so that your weapon is ready when needed.
3. Make sure to use JHP's in your gun. FMJ is not OK for self-defense use.

SIA

[Keith B]

This just goes back to showing you should never shoot someone you know. It raises a lot of questions due to the previous relationship and premeditation, etc.

[The Annoyed Man]

This just goes back to showing you should never shoot someone you know. It raises a lot of questions due to the previous relationship and premeditation, etc.

I'm sure you meant that seriously, but it was really funny.........like....I would go around randomly shooting people I didn't know?

[Keith B]

This just goes back to showing you should never shoot someone you know. It raises a lot of questions due to the previous relationship and premeditation, etc.

I'm sure you meant that seriously, but it was really funny.........like....I would go around randomly shooting people I didn't know?

We never know about you TAM

Seriously, it does throw a lot of really hard questions in the mix. Previous stain on relationship, fights, etc. all play into the justification of whether or not you really had no other choice or jumped at the chance to eliminate the person you had a grudge against.

[E.Marquez]

This just goes back to showing you should never shoot someone you know. It raises a lot of questions due to the previous relationship and premeditation, etc.

I'm sure you meant that seriously, but it was really funny.........like....I would go around randomly shooting people I didn't know?

Actually I took it the other way,, that I would desire to go around and shoot people i do know... Ohhhh, Wait

[CowboyEngineer]

An interesting article from American Hangunner. As a teenager, many, many, many years ago I use to go fishing and hunting around Noel. In reading the story no mention is made as to whether the parents called the cops after their daughter called them for help. If they had time to put on their shoes, get their gun and drive there, they had time to call the cops. It might not have made any difference if they got there before the cops, which can easily happen in rural areas. But it might have help the defense and maybe kept the father from being charged. My 2 cents.

[Bob in Big D]

An interesting article from American Hangunner. As a teenager, many, many, many years ago I use to go fishing and hunting around Noel. In reading the story no mention is made as to whether the parents called the cops after their daughter called them for help. If they had time to put on their shoes, get their gun and drive there, they had time to call the cops. It might not have made any difference if they got there before the cops, which can easily happen in rural areas. But it might have help the defense and maybe kept the father from being charged. My 2 cents.

at least you are on record as trying to get help from the police.

[Crossfire]

This just goes back to showing you should never shoot someone you know. It raises a lot of questions due to the previous relationship and premeditation, etc.

You know that's MY line...
But still true.

[Keith B]

This just goes back to showing you should never shoot someone you know. It raises a lot of questions due to the previous relationship and premeditation, etc.

You know that's MY line...
But still true.

Remember, plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery.

[VMI77]

http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMG ... er/AHSO12/

The above link may or may not work for the rest of the forum readers. I had to give my name and email addy
to gain access to the digital version of the Sept/Oct 2012 "American Handgunner" magazine's digital edition.

The above link is to the first page of a story by Mr. Massad Ayoob and details the legal problems encountered
by an armed citizen who was preventing the death of his daughter, his wife, and himself at the hands of his daughter's
psychotic aggressive husband.

You may read the whole story above, but here's my summary of what happened. I am providing this story to all y'all
to show how bad decisions can lead to your loss of life, liberty, and money if you aren't careful.

An aggressive ex-husband (or soon to be?) was beating the mother of his child. She was able to call her parents at home.
Her dad grabbed his Ruger P90 DC, a single stack .45 semi-automatic pistol. The parents raced to the scene where the
crazy man was attacking their daughter.

The father and the BG started wrestling, were on the ground, and the younger man was beating his FIL senseless.

The wife of the GG ran to their van, retrieved the Ruger, and hit the BG several times in the head with it (using it as a club).

Since the beating was getting worse, she decided that she needed to shoot the BG. She pointed it at him, pulled the
trigger and ..... nothing!! Her husband didn't believe in carrying one in the chamber, so no round was available.

She didn't know how to use her husband's pistol, so she didn't know to rack the slide to get one in the pipe.

The BG turned at that point and was going to seize the Ruger from his former MIL.

The MIL tossed the pistol to her husband, who racked the slide, and fired rapidly at the aggressor, who turned at
the first shot. He was hit 5 times and died quickly.

The Missouri DA was not in favor of citizens with guns and arrested the GG for murder. Part of her reasoning was that
the BG was unarmed, plus some of the entry wounds were to his back.

Another problem with this case was that the husband had charged the Ruger with .45 FMJ, 230 grain ammo. All shots
went through and through the BG. None remained in the BG's body, but none of the rounds hit anyone else. They could
have hit the GG when the wife tried to fire at the BG on top of her husband.

A professional firearms expert testified for the defense at the trial. He explained that the Ruger P90 DC .45 has a short
reset trigger, and that it would be easy for the GG under stress to fire 5 rounds in something like 1 second. He explained
to the jury that the GG's quick firing at a man who was initially facing him is what resulted in some of the wounds being
in the BG's back.

The GG was eventually found not guilty, but that verdict cost him a lot of money and anguish.

Lessons to be learned from this man's mistakes:
1. Teach your wife to shoot any weapons you own.
2. Carry one in the pipe so that your weapon is ready when needed.
3. Make sure to use JHP's in your gun. FMJ is not OK for self-defense use.

SIA

While I agree that you should use JHP ammo, I think MA also has some stories where DA's claimed the GG loaded his gun with evil hollow points solely to kill, so if you get a corrupt DA you're going to have problems even if you do everything right.

[Keith B]

While I agree that you should use JHP ammo, I think MA also has some stories where DA's claimed the GG loaded his gun with evil hollow points solely to kill, so if you get a corrupt DA you're going to have problems even if you do everything right.

While I know MA is an expert witness and considered one of the top authorities on defense shootings, I take his and other's like him with a little grain of salt in their writings. While I believe they don't tell falsehoods in their stories, just like all writers, you have to keep your target audience engaged, and in doing so you will slant your writings to favor your view and to pass along your agenda. It's called the 'hook' and all good writers do it. So, while I read and follow his info, I always look at them and try to play devils advocate in my own mind to see if there is another angle.

As for DA's or Defense Attorney's, they will use every angle they can to try and win their case and portray the shooter in a bad light to a liberal judge or jury in hopes to sway them into believing the person was out to kill someone, not defending themselves. That includes referring to hollow-points as evil, AK's and AR's as Evil Black Rifles, etc.