Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

[dcfis]

Just heard on TV from CNN
They interveiwed two teens at another theater that has metal detectors, the teens said they made them feel safer. Did I miss something here, or did he break in an emergancy exit. Are people really this blind to things. Need to stop my rant for forum rule reasons.

That was the initial report, but now they say he 'came in costume' and apparently had the guns hidden. He bought a ticket and pretended to take a cell phone call, moved toward the exit door, then turned around and threw the tear gas/smoke canister and started his spree.

That's not what witnesses have reported who were in the front row when he entered through the exit door.

Correct. He bought a ticket Sat near the Exit. His phone rang and he left through the exit like he was taking a call. Went to his car outside and got kitted up and came back in through the door. Where was the alarm?

[JJVP]

Nice article from a professor that teaches threat management at the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia.

I was surprised about this particular quote. Normally all we hear is "hide, don't confront, call 911"

If a perpetrator enters through an exit, such as in the Aurora shooting, a group assault on the individual may be the only tangible way to end a massacre. A few may lose their lives, but many others will be spared. It is in these moments, in the military or civilian life, where heroes emerge.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/opinion/b ... ?hpt=hp_t2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Dave2]

He bought a ticket Sat near the Exit. His phone rang and he left through the exit like he was taking a call. Went to his car outside and got kitted up and came back in through the door. Where was the alarm?

I can tell you that where I work (not a movie theater), there aren't any alarms on the emergency exit doors both because that's often the only way to get from point A to point B that doesn't involve running people over with heavy equipment, and because it's usually way faster to go the "back way" (when we're busy, it can be 10 seconds vs 5 minutes).

I'd imagine that workers in movie theaters run into the same sort of stuff... Actually, come to think of it, I know they do because I used to work for a church that met in a movie theater. Every Sunday morning, we'd all go through various emergency exits to get to various storage locations. Sometimes to save time, and IIRC sometimes because there just wasn't another way.

[dcfis]

Nice article from a professor that teaches threat management at the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia.

I was surprise about this particular quote. Normally all we hear is "hide, don't confront, call 911"

If a perpetrator enters through an exit, such as in the Aurora shooting, a group assault on the individual may be the only tangible way to end a massacre. A few may lose their lives, but many others will be spared. It is in these moments, in the military or civilian life, where heroes emerge.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/opinion/b ... ?hpt=hp_t2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pure logic. How many people have died by doing nothing PSAs always advocate? What would have happened if the heroes on Flight 93 did nothing? What happened to out collective ability to think?

[Spluloacle]

I have to wonder what pharmaceuticals he was taking? Ambien? Anti-depressants? Anti-anxiety?

[Right2Carry]

Either he had an accomplice or he was the one leaving and coming back.

http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/252995 ... e-theater-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jimlongley]

. . . I agree with those who have made the point that, from a tactical perspective, this one was pretty much a Kobayashi Maru scenario. It would be pointless to try to speculate about what I would have done in that situation without knowing exactly what happened, but at least having a weapon with me wouldn't have hurt. Even if my plan was to just hit the dirt and crawl to an exit, having something to fight back with if the guy happened to stumble across me while I was doing so doesn't seem to have a downside. Since he was all kitted out in kevlar, it might not have made a difference in the outcome for me, but that gear doesn't make you magically invulnerable, and the loss of breath/bruises/possible cracked ribs might have at least slowed him down enough for a few more people to make it out. Kind of a depressing train of thought, but true.

Long consideration and conversation with my CHL bride, and several CHL friends (and I have been amazed at the variety of answers) leads me to think I might have attempted to move closer and gone for a "mozambique" or triple tap (two to the body, one to the head) and feel that my usual carry .45ACP would have had some effect. A couple of people have reacted "Not me, I would have been out of threre!" and similar statements, which really shocked me in one case, and then there was the person who said he would have stood up and blazed away despite the crowd, he felt he probably would have been the only one standing besides the shooter.

[dcfis]

All of that is just crazy. This guy had more ballistic kit than any soldier. Only shot would have been a direct face hit. A 3" circle in a situation like that is lunacy to try. The best and only option for a single lone CHL is to draw fire/occupy the shooter making sure your family and as many others as possible have as much time as you can give them to escape. You arent making the next showing, unfortunately.

[JackRR]

Interview with a guy who got shot on CNN, said shooter's AR jammed. First I've heard of this.

[C-dub]

This whole thing is too weird. The guy recently graduated college and was accepted to and working on a PhD. He's a smart guy and planned this out very well. However, he leaves his apartment rigged to blow when someone enters, which suggests he doesn't plan on going back there. I don't know if because he doesn't plan on surviving or because just won't go back there. I'm not sure since he wore body armor and all that, but that doesn't sound to me like someone that had a death wish and he didn't kill himself afterward or put up any resistance at all. Then, he tells the police that his apartment is rigged and they shouldn't go in there. This makes no sense unless it wasn't meant for the police, but someone else instead. IDK!

What was his plan for after? Why did he do it at all? I don't buy the insane bit with this one. Sure, he's got a screw loose, but I hope they do not find him incapable of being tried. It took too long to plan and was meticulous in it's detail and well executed. Of course, that's where we're at with Jared Loughner (sp?). I wouldn't go so far as to say he was put up to it by someone in our government, but it won't keep them from licking their chops because this came along and might get done what Fast & Furious didn't. He could be delusional and think that he will become a martyr for the gun control cause. Would that keep him from being tried?

I think there is more to this than him just being a nut job. I just don't know what.

[Dad24GreatKids]

I just read a story on FoxNews.com that stated Holmes might have been "packing" as many as 6,000 rounds of ammunition. Is that possible? Seems like he would have had to have been Superman to carry that much weight. 500 rounds of .40 cal in my range bag feels like a lot.

[AEA]

He didn't have that much with him. That is the total he had bought over the last few months. There was a lot in his apartment.

[dac1842]

Until you are in a shoot-dont shoot situation you do not know how you will react. Everyone wants to think they would react to the situation, however numerous studies on this type of event shows that only 10% of the population actually possess the fight instead of flight ability. Most people simply do not react, but flee from the danger. Not to say that is wrong. Faced with this scenario, that was very much the proper response. An armed citizen who does not have tactical experience would have exasperated the issue. This coward planned this out extremely well. However lack of training was his downfall as well, he did not know how to clear the jam in combat. He froze when the gun jammed, and thank God he did.
When I was in SWAT we practiced clearing jams as well as overcoming other tactical issues so much that you dreamed about it. When you look at the way this guy prepared for his mission, a well trained, well disciplined officer would have been the only way to stop this during the active shooting event.
But for those that like to practice shooting, this brings up the thought now for those of you that have not practiced double taps to chest and head, you might want to start.

[dcfis]

Interview with a guy who got shot on CNN, said shooter's AR jammed. First I've heard of this.

Well, it was one of those craptastic Cmag drums

[snatchel]

Mrs. Snatchel and I went to watch Dark Knight tonight. We both agreed that going to see the movie is the best way we can honor the victims of the shooting. Going to watch the movie after the tragedy that happened is our way of showing James Holmes and the rest of the world that we are NOT going to be bullied by fear.

Still, my observations:

There were several police in and around the theater. There were 2 officers in the theater room for the actual showing, one sitting in the front row and one sitting in the back. Some kid got loud (the officers did not come in till just before the movie started, we were sitting in the back and saw him come in... apparently the kid didn't) and started talking back to the screen during the movie, and the officer escorted him out quickly.

This was a Cinemark theater, and no signs were present. I did carry, OWB, a G17 and an LCP. We enjoyed the movie, despite a dark lingering thought in our minds that just 48 hours ago 12 people were killed and 50+ wounded doing the same thing we were doing: trying to enjoy an evening out. Even worse was the fact that many people in that theater, as far as we know, could have been carrying and weren't.