Clerk Shoots Beer Thief

[philip964]

My vote no bill.

Not that what the clerk did was morally right. But this has been the way these cases have been resolved in the past.

Don't commit crimes at night in Texas.

[A-R]

This is eerily similar to a recent case in Austin in which clerk/shooter was convicted murder then sentenced to time served and probation

Will have to do some digging for it, but know there is a link around here somewhere ...

[A-R]

Here it is ...

viewtopic.php?f=108&t=41103&hilit=Austin+beer+thief" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Heartland Patriot]

Saying its okay for someone to come and steal something because the cost of the item being stolen is low sets a bad precedence. It proclaims to the criminal world that the standards have been lowered. "Thou shalt not steal" (not in a Biblical sense, just as a societal norm) becomes "thou shalt not steal EXPENSIVE things". And then it becomes a GAME of defining "expensive". I'm not saying that I'm going to shoot someone over beer, or that the clerk made the wisest call...I'm sure he will have a rough time over this. What I am saying is that setting precedence and making it a lowered standard, is a BAD THING.

[RHenriksen]

While the Texas penal code applies throughout the state, this sort of thing can definitely come down to the D.A. in your county, how fed up people are with lawless behavior, etc.

thenick I believe we have a thread on this somewhere around here. Anyone have an update on this?

Police said a homeowner shot a man in the head after the man reportedly tried to steal a potted plant from the homeowner's property Wednesday morning

The injured man, in his 40s, was not critically injured and is expected to survive. Benavides said he will likely be charged with theft or burglary. The homeowner is not expected to be charged.

“He is protected because he was trying to prevent theft to his property,” Benavides said.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_ ... br%20/%3EP" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[recaffeination]

Ballistic karma gonna get ya.

[recaffeination]

Here's the difference between recover and replace.

Suppose your daughter is kidnapped.
Recover = rescue her.
Replace = have another child.

Now do you still think replace is just as good as recover?

[barstoolguru]

PC §9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS 61
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the

but subpart (3)(A) says that the person must reasonably believe that the property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means. A 12 pack of beer can easily be recovered/replaced (you can get a 12-pack at any grocery store). During my CHL class, the instructor suggested that if it is a common item, then deadly force would not be justified. If it was something such as a family heirloom then you could use deadly force because that cannot be easily replaced. Am I missing something here or was I mis-informed during my CHL class?

It means THAT specific piece of proeprty cannot be recovered. Doesn't say replaced. Now, protected may mena insurance, as it is covered, but not sure there is case law on that.

My statement to people on this is, is the property they are taking worth the amount you will need to spend with a lawyer while waiting for the Grand Jury to decide if it was justifiable or not? Televisions, stereos, some vehicles, etc, and especially beer are not worth it IMO.

Sorry bro. I have been before the grand jury 3 different times and never hired a lawyer. They can make their own decisions with or without you, He didn’t get arrested. In this case the law is clear he is a thief at night and there was no chance to recover the property, if so the last 3 times it would have be recovered. He is a repeat offender and he got what he deserved; no one goes into business to take losses from people that want to help themselfs

[Keith B]

It means THAT specific piece of property cannot be recovered. Doesn't say replaced. Now, protected may mean insurance, as it is covered, but not sure there is case law on that.

My statement to people on this is, is the property they are taking worth the amount you will need to spend with a lawyer while waiting for the Grand Jury to decide if it was justifiable or not? Televisions, stereos, some vehicles, etc, and especially beer are not worth it IMO.

Sorry bro. I have been before the grand jury 3 different times and never hired a lawyer. They can make their own decisions with or without you, He didn’t get arrested. In this case the law is clear he is a thief at night and there was no chance to recover the property, if so the last 3 times it would have be recovered. He is a repeat offender and he got what he deserved; no one goes into business to take losses from people that want to help themselfs

We'll see. Zimmerman wasn't initially arrested. Neither are a lot of folks who are not flight risks. Doesn't mean the DA won't decide to go ahead and have them arrested and charged once the evidence is reviewed.

And, if you have been before a GJ 3 times, maybe you need to reevaluate your actions?

[Jumping Frog]

Note that recovery of property does not necessarily have to be the only justification here. Once the thief turned back to confront the clerk it could very well have become justified under PC §9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.

The store manager said he told Troy Colby to put the beer back, but he didn't. The manager said the clerk opened fire when Troy Colby turned to confront him.

We don't know what was said. If the BG said, "You want your beer back, I'll shove it . . . ", that is threatening him with a weapon. He has now changed theft into Robbery. Even just threatening, "I am going to hurt you bad", it now becomes Robbery.

Robbery is one of the six enumerated crimes in PC §9.32(a)(2)(B) "to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery."

[tacticool]

And, if you have been before a GJ 3 times, maybe you need to reevaluate your actions?

I always shake my head at new members posting a list of their multiple arrests and asking if they're eligible when most people I know have never been cuffed and stuffed. Not even as a scare tactic when they were a teenager.

[WildBill]

And, if you have been before a GJ 3 times, maybe you need to reevaluate your actions?

I always shake my head at new members posting a list of their multiple arrests and asking if they're eligible when most people I know have never been cuffed and stuffed. Not even as a scare tactic when they were a teenager.

Diversity.

[philip964]

http://www.khou.com/news/local/Family-o ... 18975.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Family of the man killed are going to the press, multiple stories like the one above.

According to the family the man was mentally ill and had escaped from his care facility.

Also apparently this is not the first time the person had stolen from the store.

I'm still voting the shooter will be no billed.

Don't commit crimes in Texas at night. It can be fatal.

[n5wd]

Here is the thing, from the news report:

"He came before, two or three times, and sometimes he came and stole a 12-pack. Before, he stole a 12-pack three or four times. We also reported to the law," said Nick Zaman, the store owner.

So, this thief, apparently, anytime he ran out of beer, just walked into the neighborhood store, and picked up a 12 pack. Didn't bother paying for it, just took it. Store owner has called the police several times. Still happening.

So, how would you react if this was YOUR business? YOUR livelihood?

First thing I'd be doing is camping on my city councilman's desk, demanding to know why that so-and-so they hired as chief of police isn't doing his job! (Assuming the store folks can ID the thief from his repeated escapades, it should be easy to prosecute the thief based on that complaint and identification).

But, shooting someone over a twelve-pack of beer? All joking aside - that would be one thing I couldn't sleep well about at night. Would I be mad about it, sure - but pull out a gun and shoot the guy in the back over a twelve-pack of beer, or a carton of cigarettes, or... . Nah. But, I might also find some other concerned citizens who would wish to administer some sidewalk justice, assuming the authorities weren't going to help.

[Oldgringo]

Was the brand of beer ever revealed? Inquiring minds....