Two thugs involved in kidnapping of 7/yo girl

[matriculated]

And by "involved," I mean they stepped in to prevent a 7/yo girl being kidnapped by a man. And it wasn't a real kidnapping, it was an ABC show experimenting with what strangers would do if they saw a little girl being kidnapped in broad daylight. Almost everybody walks by with nary a glance. Some people are obviously interested in what's happening, but nobody takes action until the thug-looking guys step up. A couple of young, skinny black males, saggy pants, oversized t-shirts, the whole shabang. Your stereotypical "thug," right? The reason I thought this was worth posting is because we had a discussion about profiling in another thread, and I thought this video shows the inherent flaws in profiling. After all, who would have thought that out of all those people walking by, these 2 would be the ones to take action and protect the girl? I know there was probably some confusion with other people passing by about whether or not this was a case of a misbehaving girl and her dad, but the girl keeps screaming "You're not my dad!" I would have at least stuck around to see what's going on and to gather more info...And another man intervened at the same time, jumping out of his pick up to go take care of business. Three guys, out of all those people walking by... I don't know, I would have expected more people do to something.

[youtube][/youtube]

[knotquiteawake]

They had to do it in NY so they wouldn't get shot.

[RoyGBiv]

5 minutes maximum on the streets of Fort Worth and that actor would be leaking vital fluids.

Hard to imagine a dumber thing to "test" on any busy street.
Kudos to the two men who stepped up.
Shame, shame on the rest.

[mamabearCali]

I was just thinking the same thing! This is insanely stupid stunt to pull because if I saw that and thought it was real and a child was really being kidnapped I would do something about it, be that pepper spray on the perp or possibly even drawing. Reall really stupid.

[Keith B]

This is an exact scenario we use in our CHL class. You really don't know what you are seeing. You're right to stay and observe, take down pertinent info and call 911 to investigate. For all you know this could be a brat with their step-father who is just mad because they aren't getting their way on something. Getting directly involved may not be prudent unless you can ensure your safety, the safety of the girl, and even the alleged kidnapper. Then it should only be done to try and let the person know they have been seen and can be easily identified. If they are really trying to do something heinous they will high-tail it away faster than Speedy Gonzalez leaving the child behind.

[Scott in Houston]

I agree with Keith. Drawing on this guy, and worse, shooting would be a VERY bad idea IMO. I can easily see how this could be interpreted as a discipline scenario with father/daughter, or even step-father/daughter, etc. At the same time, I can guarantee if a kid was saying, "You're not my dad," that I would do nothing less than video, call 911, and keep them in my sight as long as possible. I'd almost certainly not draw on them, and I don't think I would even verbally interact for fear of being drawn-on if he's truly a criminal or elevating a scenario for the worse if he's actually the father or step-father.

[mamabearCali]

This particular scene might not have called for such drastic action (shooting someone), because the situation was slightly ambiguous (it could have easily been a step father and the girl only appeared angry not terrified). I still say it was a stupid stunt. Someone could have easily gotten hurt.

But if you Knewa child was being kidnapped before your eyes are you telling me that it is the best action to take pictures and call the cops and not at least try to stop it? I have to look myself in the mirror each morning, if I Knewa child was being kidnapped, did nothing (or took a pic of the liscience plate), then she was found dead in a field the next day I would have a hard time living with that.

[speedsix]

...this is another one of those tough individual decisions...experience, training, insight, wisdom, willingness to risk personal loss or harm...all things to be considered...what's a good choice for one might be disastrous for another...

...another irresponsible media gimmick...

[Keith B]

This particular scene might not have called for such drastic action (shooting someone), because the situation was slightly ambiguous (it could have easily been a step father and the girl only appeared angry not terrified). I still say it was a stupid stunt. Someone could have easily gotten hurt.

But if you Knewa child was being kidnapped before your eyes are you telling me that it is the best action to take pictures and call the cops and not at least try to stop it? I have to look myself in the mirror each morning, if I Knewa child was being kidnapped, did nothing (or took a pic of the liscience plate), then she was found dead in a field the next day I would have a hard time living with that.

The issue is you don't know in this situation. ABC's 20/20 'What Would You Do' show is like this and some of the things I have seen them do is pretty out there. However, they have a 'bystander' close that will quickly intervene if they think someone will get violent with the actors. Still a stupid thing, but hey, it's reality TV.

As for the other scenario of knowing a child is being kidnapped, sure I am going to intervene, but ONLY if I am 110% sure I know what I am getting into and I can ensure the relative safety of the child and myself.

[goose]

Having had my first "CHL moment" (even though I never showed/produced my pistol) involve two adults fighting over possession of child, I made sure both parties knew I was calling 911 and I made sure both parties saw me watching them and talking into my cell phone. From the standpoint of having to make tough decisions I got lucky. The kid was "released" and she got back in the original car I saw her in. If the guy that had put her in his car had successfully tried to take the girl out of the parking lot maybe it would be harder for me. I do believe that huge portions of the kidnapping type folks are not even going to want attention or descriptions of themselves running around. Maybe I just let myself feel better by saying that. I think letting that guy see that he is being video taped (no tape, I know) on your phone, or the like, is going to make a real perp start second guessing his actions. If it’s a stepdad, he’s just going to regret the embarrassment but he isn’t going to bolt.

Granted, the guy in my story turned his anger towards me when he realized he was dealing with 911 and descriptions, etc but that is the part about deciding how much risk you want to take on. I kept cars and gas pumps between us and he eventually left. I can't even imagine what would have happened had I drawn. Far too many lovers/friends/spouses turn on those trying to help them when they think that their SO is being threatened.

How much of ourselves to risk when kids are involved is much, much more intense for me than situations or what-ifs not involving kids.

[Scott in Houston]

But if you Knewa child was being kidnapped before your eyes are you telling me that it is the best action to take pictures and call the cops and not at least try to stop it? I have to look myself in the mirror each morning, if I Knewa child was being kidnapped, did nothing (or took a pic of the liscience plate), then she was found dead in a field the next day I would have a hard time living with that.

Of course... I would venture 99.9% of those on this forum would get involved if you "knew".

Can you tell me a situation where you would "know" 100%?? The only I can think of is if the 'dad' or male actor was wielding a weapon. Even then, he could still be a father, but it's moot when a weapon is involved.
How would *anyone* know? Only if she was a relative could I know for sure.

[smoothoperator]

But if you Knewa child was being kidnapped before your eyes are you telling me that it is the best action to take pictures and call the cops and not at least try to stop it? I have to look myself in the mirror each morning, if I Knewa child was being kidnapped, did nothing (or took a pic of the liscience plate), then she was found dead in a field the next day I would have a hard time living with that.

Of course... I would venture 99.9% of those on this forum would get involved if you "knew".

Can you tell me a situation where you would "know" 100%?? The only I can think of is if the 'dad' or male actor was wielding a weapon. Even then, he could still be a father, but it's moot when a weapon is involved.
How would *anyone* know? Only if she was a relative could I know for sure.

You might be sure if it's a child of a close friend, or if the man is wearing a TSA uniform, but otherwise...


.

[mamabearCali]

How would you "know" someone was being kidnapped. Well a screaming child being torn out of an apparent mothers arms with the mother screaming for help that would be a situation I could see myself actively intervening in...hopefully not drawing but certainly calling the cops as I advance and tell the person grabbing the child to stop immediately. A person attacking a child (not disciplining) but attacking a child that is screaming for help ( really screaming...not the half hearted help the little girl gave). Surely you can think of sure signs that would indicate something is amiss and needs immediate intervention.


I am not saying we should play cop, but simply that we should be our brothers keeper. If someone especially a child appears in extreme distress we (simply as human beings) should try to help.

[Dave2]

You might be sure if it's a child of a close friend, or if the man is wearing a TSA uniform, but otherwise...

The TSA is both sexually assaulting kids and kidnapping them for their own safety now?

[mamabearCali]

You might be sure if it's a child of a close friend, or if the man is wearing a TSA uniform, but otherwise...

The TSA is both sexually assaulting kids and kidnapping them for their own safety now?

Would not put it past them......