Churches having to hire police to watch during services

[thelurker]

I attend church in Colleyville and we have at least one CPD officer in our services. We're not 30.06 posted, and I know there are quite a few members that carry. Unfortunately, while having a general CCW conversation with another officer that fills in when the other is out, he made mention that all the CCWers in our services were breaking the law...since we all know that carrying in church is illegal. I just left it at that and ended the conversation. Concealed means concealed.

[Timbo55]

I attend church in Colleyville and we have at least one CPD officer in our services. We're not 30.06 posted, and I know there are quite a few members that carry. Unfortunately, while having a general CCW conversation with another officer that fills in when the other is out, he made mention that all the CCWers in our services were breaking the law...since we all know that carrying in church is illegal. I just left it at that and ended the conversation. Concealed means concealed.

In searching for info on legal carry at church I found this

http://www.texaschl.us/faq.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Where may I NOT carry my handgun?

Handguns and other weapons cannot be carried at schools or on school buses, at polling places, in courts and court offices, at racetracks, at secured airport areas or within 1,000 feet of the premises of an execution on the day of execution. The law also specifically prohibits handguns from businesses where alcohol is sold if 51% or more of their revenue is from the sale of alcohol for on-premises consumption, and from locations where high school, college or professional sporting events are taking place
You may not carry handguns in hospitals or nursing homes, amusement parks, places of worship or at government meetings if signs are posted prohibiting them (see Texas Penal Code § 30.06 requirements).
Businesses also may post signs prohibiting handguns on their premises based on criminal trespass laws. See Texas Penal Code § 46.035. (Judges, prosecuting attorneys, peace officers and parole officers should consult Texas Penal Code § 46.15 regarding exemptions from the “no-carry” rules of the Penal Code.)

I would guess if the leadership of your church allowed CHL holders to be a part of the security team it would be legal.

Tim

[74novaman]

I would guess if the leadership of your church allowed CHL holders to be a part of the security team it would be legal.

Tim

There's been some discussion on this as well, but the general consensus is that being a part of an organized security team as a CHL is VERY gray territory. If you're doing a job (church security), even on a volunteer basis Texas law requires you to have security licensing.

Don't think anyone has ever been prosecuted for it, but it might be better for the CHLs to regard themselves as the "unorganized militia" of church security.

[thelurker]

I would guess if the leadership of your church allowed CHL holders to be a part of the security team it would be legal.

Tim

To avoid any confusion, if you'll notice in my post above, we are not 30.06 posted, so carrying at church for us (CHL holders) is, in fact, legal.

Also, although I have never disclosed that I have my chl, I have become acquainted with the police at our church, so if things were to go sideways, I shouldn't get shot first if they see this man with a gun.

[TXlaw1]

I would not attend a church that bans CHL. Not in these times.

Tim

Or should I say "AMEN!!" That says it all for me too!

About the only place I will enter that has a 30.06 sign is a hospital or medical facility where my health requires it or where I have a family member or client that I must visit. And then you can be sure I have another non-lethal means of protection readily available.

[chadster]

I guess I'm lucky when it comes to carrying in Church. My father is the pastor AND he is also currently working on getting his CHL. Pastors packing heat kinda fit into the "pretty darn cool" category as far as I'm concerned!

There are actually a few of us who carry at church, and it's probably a good thing too. For those of you who attend, isn't it funny how churches can attract some of the strangest characters? We had a guy come to a service, interrupt the sermon, and ask my dad if he could speak to the congregation. My dad of course told him that it wasn't the time, but the guy insisted and proceeded to ask the ushers to come up so they could take an offering for him. I think I even heard my dad start to laugh from the pulpit for a quick second.

I've got all sorts of stories about strange characters showing up on Sundays, and although they were mostly harmless, you just never know when you might run into a situation that could turn ugly really quick.

[Dave2]

There are actually a few of us who carry at church, and it's probably a good thing too. For those of you who attend, isn't it funny how churches can attract some of the strangest characters? We had a guy come to a service, interrupt the sermon, and ask my dad if he could speak to the congregation. My dad of course told him that it wasn't the time, but the guy insisted and proceeded to ask the ushers to come up so they could take an offering for him. I think I even heard my dad start to laugh from the pulpit for a quick second.

I've got all sorts of stories about strange characters showing up on Sundays, and although they were mostly harmless, you just never know when you might run into a situation that could turn ugly really quick.

Yeah, I was running sound at a good old fashioned big tent revival (but with electricity) that was held near downtown Dallas a few years ago. There where a couple times when I would've been glad to have something on me. At the time I didn't have a CHL (or a gun to conceal, or a knife, or a sharp stick, or even a dull stick). Nothing happened that would've caused me to pull anything, though. Just a couple people who viewed things a bit more... "interactively" than we did, and one or two people who were having a bit of fun at our expense.

[wgoforth]

I guess I'm lucky when it comes to carrying in Church. My father is the pastor AND he is also currently working on getting his CHL. Pastors packing heat kinda fit into the "pretty darn cool" category as far as I'm concerned!

There are actually a few of us who carry at church, and it's probably a good thing too. For those of you who attend, isn't it funny how churches can attract some of the strangest characters? We had a guy come to a service, interrupt the sermon, and ask my dad if he could speak to the congregation. My dad of course told him that it wasn't the time, but the guy insisted and proceeded to ask the ushers to come up so they could take an offering for him. I think I even heard my dad start to laugh from the pulpit for a quick second.

I've got all sorts of stories about strange characters showing up on Sundays, and although they were mostly harmless, you just never know when you might run into a situation that could turn ugly really quick.

I'm a church minister as well, as yes, churches tend to attract desperate people. Sometimes desperate for the Word...other times for alcohol, drugs, emotional/menta help..and these can quickly become violent when turned down or offered the help they didn't want. I am speaking to a group of preachers in Oct on the subject of church security. Although not publicized unless it is large numbers, there are on the avg of over 100 church shooting a year..and does not include other forms of violence and theft.

[TXlaw1]

I am speaking to a group of preachers in Oct on the subject of church security. Although not publicized unless it is large numbers, there are on the avg of over 100 church shooting a year..and does not include other forms of violence and theft.

I would be most grateful if you could point me to a reference with that data - online preferably but otherwise would be ok. Seems hard to believe that there are an average of 2 shootings every week in churches. But where sin abounds, grace abounds even more. Thank God that is true.

[wgoforth]

I am speaking to a group of preachers in Oct on the subject of church security. Although not publicized unless it is large numbers, there are on the avg of over 100 church shooting a year..and does not include other forms of violence and theft.

I would be most grateful if you could point me to a reference with that data - online preferably but otherwise would be ok. Seems hard to believe that there are an average of 2 shootings every week in churches. But where sin abounds, grace abounds even more. Thank God that is true.

These include shootings at gang bangers funerals in church buildings, drive by shootings into church buildings, robberies in church buildings, couples being counseled pulling a gun on their partner, etc. Not all are the random fire-into-the-crowd like at Alta Mesa or Westwood variety, there have been 18 in past 12 years of that type.

One site has statistics broken various way, click on the different tabs to see it broken variously
http://www.carlchinn.com/Church_Crime_History.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/spe ... olence.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Crimes against churches http://www.christianpost.com/news/repor ... 009-42641/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As to the 100 a year, I can't find the article right now, but it was an article dealing with the Knoxville shooting, which stated that already there had been 60 cases of shootings in church buildings the first 4 months of that year. Assuming that was not unusual, I felt it easy to say there would be over 100 per year given there were 60 within 4 mo.

This August article mentions 39 states reporting 141 incidents of church attacks http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_news ... -shootings" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you want a shocker, google "Pastor killed" and find how many preachers are killed often connectected to their work...ie, someone they were counseling or to rob the building.

[v-rog]

It would be interesting to see how a congregation would respond if the pastor was to pull out his concealed firearm and begin blasting the bad guy from the pulpit...it would probably wake all the sleepers and those who were thinking about lunch! Certaintly would get my attention (but I'm not sure that I would continue attending)...

[TXlaw1]

Thank you, wgoforth, for these interesting links and statistics on shootings in and around churches. Eye opening!! Seems to be further justification for regularly carrying concealed handguns into the churches of America to protect the innocents who gather to worship. I do and will continue to do so.

[Oldgringo]

"Oh, yee of little faith...", why would you need a gun in the house of the Lord?

[RPB]

"Oh, yee of little faith...", why would you need a gun in the house of the Lord?

rod and staff are harder to conceal and clumsier while turning Bible pages

[speedsix]

"Oh, yee of little faith...", why would you need a gun in the house of the Lord?

...we REALLY need a sarcasm smiley...I KNOW this was posted in jest...