Wife robbed at gunpoint today- HEB in Friendswood

[Hoi Polloi]

I don't think they need to blend in. I speak with much fondness for current and retired military and law enforcement. When I was a child, civilians were the ones who stood out as being different. I was responding to Grammy's intentional desire to not stand out so much in the civilian world.

[seamusTX]

I don't think it's necessary to blend in. It is useful at times, but only as a camouflage technique. It's boring.

After all the social upheaval of the last four or five decades, which I have lived through, you can do pretty much whatever you want in terms of dress, appearance, choice of friends, and other characteristics that probably are too off-topic here.

It's not yet a libertarian paradise, and probably never will be; but you don't have either the Big Brother state or lynch mobs dictating what you what you can wear, read, or watch on TV.

But we're getting off-topic.

- Jim

[Grammy]

I know some people might take offense to what I'm about to write, so I'm going to clarify before I write it. In no way do I mean to say that folks should not get CHLs and arm themselves nor do I think they should not defend themselves. Having said that, what concerns me about this incident is that it's not the first time. Robbers tend to escalate over time. Since these robbers have been shot at (legally and justifiably), the next ones may decide to shoot first and then hijack the vehicle. I would hope that all of you that frequent that area would be on and stay on red alert. If the next ones get too close, you may never get a chance to reach in the console (or even in your waistband) to defend yourself.

Stay alert, stay safe and be at the ready.

To the last line and I made it BOLD, I have already talked to my wife exactly about this. In classes we take and here as well, it can not be said enough, be AWARE and that will help PREVENT you from having to go through this. Plus, and I hate to say this, as I am walking back out to my car, my hands are generally in a caution position. I take a look at who and what is moving around me before I open the doors to load and get in. If just by being openly aware of your surroundings makes the BG move on, then I have won the battle the best way I can.

Gary

Steady eye contact that conveys awareness and an absence of fear while the potential BG is still at a distance is often enough to get him to break off the approach and try again with someone who doesn't see him coming. He figures anybody who is alert to his presence and not visibly worried probably has reasons for that he'd rather not learn about in detail.

Excaliber I have always respected your posts and the links you provide. I was a paratrooper in the USA for 8 years, 7 & 1/2 overseas. I don't know, it wasn't instructed to us but we always had the look of someone that would "rip your throat out" at any time, don't know if it was a bit of aragance because we knew we were a bit more, don't know how to say it, but we were above average lets say. The more time I have spent as a civilian I have tried to portray more of the gray man concept but always being aware of what was happening around me.

By grayman I mean not standing out more than your average Joe, it has very hard for me to get rid of the head swivel as to know what was going on 360* around me. After reading this I think I need to keep my "situational awareness" looking face on all the time.

I would be interested in your thoughts on this...
Jim

Jim,

I understand exactly what you're saying. It took me over 2 years to "tone down" and "civilianize" after I retired, and I tried to recognize the changes so I could make the ones I wanted intelligently.

The "look" you describe has several components. Among them are:

1. A fit build

2. The strong,balanced posture and fluid movement that a trained fighter unconsciously exhibits

3. The mental preparedness to "flip the switch" in a heartbeat and respond to a threat with all out relentless counterattack without having to go through several slow escalation steps. A person who has experience with violence readily recognizes this.

4. A "radar" alertness that constantly checks the area threats could come from. This expands and contracts with the circumstances, but it's definitely there and usually picks up on someone with ill intent when he just begins to show interest or approach. It's not just visual - it's more like a continuous "instinct" sweep to see if any threatening vibes are present. (Folks who've spent a lot of time in dangerous environments will understand what I'm trying to describe here. Most others will probably think I've lost my mind.)

5. A constantly moving gaze that is always alert and scanning the environment. It stops and locks onto potential threats with a hard stare that contains no fear. I describe it as "missile lock" or a "target acquisition stare" at something or someone that may need to be engaged with violence.

There are other cues too - polished shoes (a hard to break military or paramilitary habit, but an unusual characteristic among civilians), a tactical knife clipped in the pocket, a sturdy belt, high quality precision eyewear, etc. that an alert observer may pick up on.

Most suburbanites won't notice, but people with these characteristics put off vibes that tingle the "spidey sense" of someone attuned to that - and bad guys have to be because their survival depends on consistently picking "good" (nonresistive) victims. There are probably more things we could identify if we sat down and kicked it around over a beer, but the overall effect is enough to get most bad guys to leave these kinds of folks alone.

I wouldn't give up the swivel for the sake of being more "gray." In fact, I consciously force myself to do the swivel check anytime I get out of a car or leave a building. A slightly less complete "blending in" approach can stand you in good stead by preventing unpleasant surprises without giving our soccer moms the feeling they should move to the other side of the street when you're around.

The "face" can be consciously managed to be either on or off. In civilian life, it's advantageous to be able to go about with a relaxed and alert face, which most folks interpret as generally friendly and interesting, while keeping the "switch" to the "game face" primed and ready to go when needed. That change alone is enough to convince a lot of the rats that they've made a serious target selection error and send them scurrying for cover because they accurately sense what's behind it.

For the folks who haven't spent time around either highly trained "sheep dogs" or violent street criminals, think about what's said here in terms of predator / prey interactions. Life is much easier if street predators don't see you as prey. If they do, there are 4 ways things can go:

1. If you see trouble coming in time, you may be able to avoid / evade / escape

2. You can do something to convince the hungry predator you're a predator too and he shouldn't start the game because the encounter won't be easy or fun. Many of the most effective things are nonverbal, as outlined above. However, someone who doesn't have the heart of a warrior won't be able to fake those parts, and if they try, they'll draw bad guys in like bees to honey.

3. You can allow the encounter to develop and fight all out to come through as the dominant predator. This isn't easy or fun, and the outcome is far from assured. There are no second place winners, but there can be ties for last where both combatants are seriously injured or killed.

4. You can allow the encounter to develop, submit, and become food. There are a whole range of possible outcomes to the last option, from simply being relieved of your wallet to being killed for the thrill.

Once again Excaliber you are a wealth of knowledge. I appreciate your response and comments. This is an evil and fallen world we live in, alertness and preparedness is of utmost importance to everyone.

I think I have been trying to go from one extreme to the other in order to "fit" in with the work I do now and might need rethink things abit.

I once heard something funny, don't remember where but your comments above brought it back to mind. The comment was "if you look like food you will be eaten", I think you illistrated that pretty effectively above.
Thanks,
Jim

[Grammy]

I don't think it's necessary to blend in. It is useful at times, but only as a camouflage technique.

Agreed and thanks for the email.
Jim

[Purplehood]

Jim,

I understand exactly what you're saying. It took me over 2 years to "tone down" and "civilianize" after I retired, and I tried to recognize the changes so I could make the ones I wanted intelligently.

The "look" you describe has several components. Among them are:

1. A fit build

2. The strong,balanced posture and fluid movement that a trained fighter unconsciously exhibits

3. The mental preparedness to "flip the switch" in a heartbeat and respond to a threat with all out relentless counterattack without having to go through several slow escalation steps. A person who has experience with violence readily recognizes this.

4. A "radar" alertness that constantly checks the area threats could come from. This expands and contracts with the circumstances, but it's definitely there and usually picks up on someone with ill intent when he just begins to show interest or approach. It's not just visual - it's more like a continuous "instinct" sweep to see if any threatening vibes are present. (Folks who've spent a lot of time in dangerous environments will understand what I'm trying to describe here. Most others will probably think I've lost my mind.)

5. A constantly moving gaze that is always alert and scanning the environment. It stops and locks onto potential threats with a hard stare that contains no fear. I describe it as "missile lock" or a "target acquisition stare" at something or someone that may need to be engaged with violence.

There are other cues too - polished shoes (a hard to break military or paramilitary habit, but an unusual characteristic among civilians), a tactical knife clipped in the pocket, a sturdy belt, high quality precision eyewear, etc. that an alert observer may pick up on.

Most suburbanites won't notice, but people with these characteristics put off vibes that tingle the "spidey sense" of someone attuned to that - and bad guys have to be because their survival depends on consistently picking "good" (nonresistive) victims. There are probably more things we could identify if we sat down and kicked it around over a beer, but the overall effect is enough to get most bad guys to leave these kinds of folks alone.

I wouldn't give up the swivel for the sake of being more "gray." In fact, I consciously force myself to do the swivel check anytime I get out of a car or leave a building. A slightly less complete "blending in" approach can stand you in good stead by preventing unpleasant surprises without giving our soccer moms the feeling they should move to the other side of the street when you're around.

The "face" can be consciously managed to be either on or off. In civilian life, it's advantageous to be able to go about with a relaxed and alert face, which most folks interpret as generally friendly and interesting, while keeping the "switch" to the "game face" primed and ready to go when needed. That change alone is enough to convince a lot of the rats that they've made a serious target selection error and send them scurrying for cover because they accurately sense what's behind it.

For the folks who haven't spent time around either highly trained "sheep dogs" or violent street criminals, think about what's said here in terms of predator / prey interactions. Life is much easier if street predators don't see you as prey. If they do, there are 4 ways things can go:

1. If you see trouble coming in time, you may be able to avoid / evade / escape

2. You can do something to convince the hungry predator you're a predator too and he shouldn't start the game because the encounter won't be easy or fun. Many of the most effective things are nonverbal, as outlined above. However, someone who doesn't have the heart of a warrior won't be able to fake those parts, and if they try, they'll draw bad guys in like bees to honey.

3. You can allow the encounter to develop and fight all out to come through as the dominant predator. This isn't easy or fun, and the outcome is far from assured. There are no second place winners, but there can be ties for last where both combatants are seriously injured or killed.

4. You can allow the encounter to develop, submit, and become food. There are a whole range of possible outcomes to the last option, from simply being relieved of your wallet to being killed for the thrill.

I agree in GENERAL with the sentiments above but not with the SPECIFICS. I am a fat, short and old looking guy. But I have been told by more than one person (of both sexes) that I look like I mean business.
I believe that attitude is the single most important factor one may have when it comes to warding off potential BGs when they are sizing folks up for marks.

[Oldgringo]

What is the topic?

[mrvmax]

Heading to Houston PD this morning, they think they have one of the perps. We'll see if the wife can pick one out of the line-up.

[longtooth]

Good job.

[Grammy]

Glad to hear that mrvmax, sorry for gettig a bit off topic. Wish the best for you and your wife. Keep us posted on the outcome.
Jim

[seamusTX]

http://galvestondailynews.com/story/173722" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Quotations from an interview with someone named Tom Estep.

- Jim

[Excaliber]

Jim,

I understand exactly what you're saying. It took me over 2 years to "tone down" and "civilianize" after I retired, and I tried to recognize the changes so I could make the ones I wanted intelligently.

The "look" you describe has several components. Among them are:

1. A fit build

2. The strong,balanced posture and fluid movement that a trained fighter unconsciously exhibits

3. The mental preparedness to "flip the switch" in a heartbeat and respond to a threat with all out relentless counterattack without having to go through several slow escalation steps. A person who has experience with violence readily recognizes this.

4. A "radar" alertness that constantly checks the area threats could come from. This expands and contracts with the circumstances, but it's definitely there and usually picks up on someone with ill intent when he just begins to show interest or approach. It's not just visual - it's more like a continuous "instinct" sweep to see if any threatening vibes are present. (Folks who've spent a lot of time in dangerous environments will understand what I'm trying to describe here. Most others will probably think I've lost my mind.)

5. A constantly moving gaze that is always alert and scanning the environment. It stops and locks onto potential threats with a hard stare that contains no fear. I describe it as "missile lock" or a "target acquisition stare" at something or someone that may need to be engaged with violence.

There are other cues too - polished shoes (a hard to break military or paramilitary habit, but an unusual characteristic among civilians), a tactical knife clipped in the pocket, a sturdy belt, high quality precision eyewear, etc. that an alert observer may pick up on.

Most suburbanites won't notice, but people with these characteristics put off vibes that tingle the "spidey sense" of someone attuned to that - and bad guys have to be because their survival depends on consistently picking "good" (nonresistive) victims. There are probably more things we could identify if we sat down and kicked it around over a beer, but the overall effect is enough to get most bad guys to leave these kinds of folks alone.

I wouldn't give up the swivel for the sake of being more "gray." In fact, I consciously force myself to do the swivel check anytime I get out of a car or leave a building. A slightly less complete "blending in" approach can stand you in good stead by preventing unpleasant surprises without giving our soccer moms the feeling they should move to the other side of the street when you're around.

The "face" can be consciously managed to be either on or off. In civilian life, it's advantageous to be able to go about with a relaxed and alert face, which most folks interpret as generally friendly and interesting, while keeping the "switch" to the "game face" primed and ready to go when needed. That change alone is enough to convince a lot of the rats that they've made a serious target selection error and send them scurrying for cover because they accurately sense what's behind it.

For the folks who haven't spent time around either highly trained "sheep dogs" or violent street criminals, think about what's said here in terms of predator / prey interactions. Life is much easier if street predators don't see you as prey. If they do, there are 4 ways things can go:

1. If you see trouble coming in time, you may be able to avoid / evade / escape

2. You can do something to convince the hungry predator you're a predator too and he shouldn't start the game because the encounter won't be easy or fun. Many of the most effective things are nonverbal, as outlined above. However, someone who doesn't have the heart of a warrior won't be able to fake those parts, and if they try, they'll draw bad guys in like bees to honey.

3. You can allow the encounter to develop and fight all out to come through as the dominant predator. This isn't easy or fun, and the outcome is far from assured. There are no second place winners, but there can be ties for last where both combatants are seriously injured or killed.

4. You can allow the encounter to develop, submit, and become food. There are a whole range of possible outcomes to the last option, from simply being relieved of your wallet to being killed for the thrill.

I agree in GENERAL with the sentiments above but not with the SPECIFICS. I am a fat, short and old looking guy. But I have been told by more than one person (of both sexes) that I look like I mean business.
I believe that attitude is the single most important factor one may have when it comes to warding off potential BGs when they are sizing folks up for marks.

I would agree with that as well.

One's alertness, backbone, and level of preparedness come through in the characteristics in my short list, and in many other ways well. The determination, willingness, and ability to resist actively and decisively are what the BG's need to pick out at a distance and avoid tangling with in order to successfully ply their trade.

Even untrained people can often sense that at some level, but they probably can't tell you how other than something like, "He looks mean."

[mctowalot]

As I post this, it sounds like Houston talk radio 950AM is about to discuss the Walmart incident. I believe their website is "the950.com" and they have live streams of their shows.

P.S. This is a great thread.

[Barbi Q]

What is the topic?

Tactical shopping.

[seamusTX]

Welcome to the forum, Barbi Q.

What are your favorite handgun, load, and holster, if you don't mind sharing the information?

- Jim

[remington79]

I'm glad to hear that she's ok. I hope everything is starting to settle down a bit at home.
[quoteAlthough I am a Christian, I have no problem defending my family with my firearm to ensure their safety.][/quote] Just one thing, being Christian doesn't mean being weak or passive.