Uvalde School shooting

[Paladin]

Here’s what I do know:

Its hard to argue with clown world logic... mostly because clown world has no logic

[K.Mooneyham]

Uvalde Police and school police no longer Cooperating with State Police investigation.

I think this is incorrect. I read that it was the chief of the school districts police that was not responding to a second interview request. He is not part of the Uvalde PD.

The Chief has obviously heard our advice to never talk to the police after you are involved in a shooting. The governor and the media have already characterized his decision as wrong and are looking for someone to blame for this tragedy. We all know who is primarily at fault here (the shooter), but there are enough mistakes that someone else will go down in flames. Will it just be a career ending decision or are they going to try to put someone in jail over this?

Look at what the media is doing to the Uvalde ISD Police Chief. Look at what they were doing to the unnamed teacher who propped the door open to go get something from her car. Does anyone on this forum still think the advice to not talk to the police if you are involved in a shooting is bad advice?

PS> I do not know if the ISD chief made a bad decision or not. I was not there and I do not know what was happening when he made the decision. I do know that the investigation is now going to take an even longer time to complete, at least in part because of the rush to judgment. I also do know that there are very different protocols for police handing an active shooter versus a barricaded armed subject, either with or without hostages.

Here’s what I do know:

I'm not saying Spike Cohen is wrong in this quote. He's correct. However, until such time as the Libertarian Party stops running candidates who wear boots on their heads (I'm not making this up, and Cohen partnered up with that guy), they will NOT be taken seriously. Also, liberty is a wonderful thing not to be taken lightly, but they need to temper their stance with a dose of reality. The Libertarian Party stands for open borders, last time I looked into them. The philosophy of libertarianism provides a useful check on statism, but the Party needs a lot of work. Sorry for my tangent.

[srothstein]

Here’s what I do know:

Never talk to the police after being involved in a shooting and never depend on them when your life or the lives of your family is on the line.

I do not know if the facts I snipped are really facts or not, but your last line and TAM's post are both 100% correct and unarguable.

[RSX11]

The Libertarian Party stands for open borders, last time I looked into them. The philosophy of libertarianism provides a useful check on statism, but the Party needs a lot of work. Sorry for my tangent.

The Mises Caucus is gaining support in the Libertarian Party. They are much more reasonable and practical than the buffoons of previous years. For instance, they are not in favor of open borders. If their faction grows, the LP might not be an embarrassment anymore.

[The Annoyed Man]

The philosophy of libertarianism provides a useful check on statism, but the Party needs a lot of work. Sorry for my tangent.

I’m a philosophical libertarian, not a LP member. While I think that weed should probably be legalized, I think that it is FAR from our most pressing issue. There are other far more important problems to be dealt with, and anyone who thinks that weed is the main issue isn’t someone to take seriously. And anyone who thinks the border should be completely open, is someone who doesn’t believe in national integrity. Without national integrity, we have nothing to enforce the constitution. And without the constitution, we have no legal framework upon which to defend our RKBA. Anyone who supports open borders is a globalist pursuing the destruction of the country, whether they be leftists, or LP members.

[philip964]

https://apple.news/AQkCU043HS4uvySI4HhPMxA

Legal action taken by 2 victims families against Daniel Defence.

[dlh]

https://apple.news/AQkCU043HS4uvySI4HhPMxA

Legal action taken by 2 victims families against Daniel Defence.

I doubt Daniels Defense will provide any responsive information to his request.
He might be trying to create a database of information on Daniels Defense that he can share with
other "anti-gun" plaintiff attorneys in other states even if he does not intend to file any lawsuits here.
If he does file suit he will find Texas courts are vastly different than Connecticut courts.
We have the intervening criminal conduct doctrine that I hope he has researched and is prepared to meet.
Stay tuned.

[Mike S]

The Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training (ALERRT) Center at Texas State University in San Marcos posted the below statement to their LinkedIn. For context, the curriculum for the DPS' School Safety Course is based on what ALERRT created as the national standard for active shooter response.

In the wake of the tragedy in Uvalde, we have had many people reach out and ask if our training or response protocols have changed. They have not.

We still teach that the priority of work for responders is to Stop the Killing first and Stop the Dying second.

If an arriving officer hears gunfire or sees other signs that there is active violence, they should move quickly to distract, isolate, and neutralize the attacker. If the attacker is not accessible through the primary access point, the officers should seek alternatives. These could include utilizing other access points (such as going through adjoining rooms), engaging the suspect through a window, or even breaking through drywall or other construction materials.

Even if the gunfire stops, responders must consider whether or not there are injured people in the room. These people probably need immediate medical assistance if they are going to survive. If the responders have information which indicates that there are injured people in a room, they need to gain access to that room as quickly as possible in order to stop the dying. The injured should be quickly stabilized and rapidly transported to definitive care.

We still teach the same priority of life - Innocent/injured people, responders, suspects. This prioritization does not mean that responders are expected to throw their lives away, but it does mean they are expected to assume risk to save lives. It does not mean that officers have to breach a door while taking fire through the door if there are other options, but it does mean that we expect them to continue trying to address the problems they are facing until the killing and dying have been stopped.

Also remember, fire personnel are probably on scene, and they have excellent breaching equipment and can access Knox boxes to get keys. Law enforcement should also integrate with fire and EMS as quickly as possible in order to save as many lives as possible.

The tragedy in Uvalde reinforces the need for constant training, the correct equipment, and competent leadership.

The families of Nevaeh Bravo, Jacklyn Jaylen Cazares, Makenna Lee Elrod, Jose Flores, Elianhna Garcia, Irma Garcia, Uziyah Garcia, Amerie Jo Garza, Xavier Lopez, Jayce Carmelo Luevanos, Tess Mata, Maranda Mathis, Eva Mireles, Alithia Ramirez, Annabell Rodriquez, Maite Rodriguez, Alexandria Aniyah Rubio, Layla Salazar, Jailah Nicole Silguero, Eliahana Cruz Torres, and Rojelio Torres deserve our best.

ALERRT

https://alerrt.org/

[Ruark]

It's a tough situation. The typical classroom doorway is VERY heavily built. In the time it takes for you to read this sentence, a dozen kids could be killed.

[carlson1]

The easiest and quickest way is to have everyone coming to school to have to enter through one door. I am not even against the “man cage” that they use at a lot of banks and like they use when going from sally port to inside the jail. One door has to close and lock before the next door will open. Not that hard.

[The Annoyed Man]

The Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training (ALERRT) Center at Texas State University in San Marcos posted the below statement to their LinkedIn. For context, the curriculum for the DPS' School Safety Course is based on what ALERRT created as the national standard for active shooter response.

In the wake of the tragedy in Uvalde, we have had many people reach out and ask if our training or response protocols have changed. They have not.

We still teach that the priority of work for responders is to Stop the Killing first and Stop the Dying second.

If an arriving officer hears gunfire or sees other signs that there is active violence, they should move quickly to distract, isolate, and neutralize the attacker. If the attacker is not accessible through the primary access point, the officers should seek alternatives. These could include utilizing other access points (such as going through adjoining rooms), engaging the suspect through a window, or even breaking through drywall or other construction materials.

Even if the gunfire stops, responders must consider whether or not there are injured people in the room. These people probably need immediate medical assistance if they are going to survive. If the responders have information which indicates that there are injured people in a room, they need to gain access to that room as quickly as possible in order to stop the dying. The injured should be quickly stabilized and rapidly transported to definitive care.

We still teach the same priority of life - Innocent/injured people, responders, suspects. This prioritization does not mean that responders are expected to throw their lives away, but it does mean they are expected to assume risk to save lives. It does not mean that officers have to breach a door while taking fire through the door if there are other options, but it does mean that we expect them to continue trying to address the problems they are facing until the killing and dying have been stopped.

Also remember, fire personnel are probably on scene, and they have excellent breaching equipment and can access Knox boxes to get keys. Law enforcement should also integrate with fire and EMS as quickly as possible in order to save as many lives as possible.

The tragedy in Uvalde reinforces the need for constant training, the correct equipment, and competent leadership.

The families of Nevaeh Bravo, Jacklyn Jaylen Cazares, Makenna Lee Elrod, Jose Flores, Elianhna Garcia, Irma Garcia, Uziyah Garcia, Amerie Jo Garza, Xavier Lopez, Jayce Carmelo Luevanos, Tess Mata, Maranda Mathis, Eva Mireles, Alithia Ramirez, Annabell Rodriquez, Maite Rodriguez, Alexandria Aniyah Rubio, Layla Salazar, Jailah Nicole Silguero, Eliahana Cruz Torres, and Rojelio Torres deserve our best.

ALERRT

https://alerrt.org/

Your link didn’t work for me, but I found their same statement on their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/ALERRT/posts/i ... 223605754/

[srothstein]

The easiest and quickest way is to have everyone coming to school to have to enter through one door. I am not even against the “man cage” that they use at a lot of banks and like they use when going from sally port to inside the jail. One door has to close and lock before the next door will open. Not that hard.

This works in low traffic volume situations, but would never work at most schools. We have schools in Texas with over 6000 students in them, and the majority of schools have over 1000. Think of trying to get 1,000 kids in through one door and set of metal detectors all in time for their first class - that means at the same time. As an alternative, consider how well TSA gets people scanned. Lines at most airports back up for a minimum of 10 minutes. And it can back up to an hour or more when it is crowded.

I am not opposed to making all access go through security screening. I am just saying it will take more tan one entrance point and more money than is expected.

[03Lightningrocks]

The easiest and quickest way is to have everyone coming to school to have to enter through one door. I am not even against the “man cage” that they use at a lot of banks and like they use when going from sally port to inside the jail. One door has to close and lock before the next door will open. Not that hard.

This works in low traffic volume situations, but would never work at most schools. We have schools in Texas with over 6000 students in them, and the majority of schools have over 1000. Think of trying to get 1,000 kids in through one door and set of metal detectors all in time for their first class - that means at the same time. As an alternative, consider how well TSA gets people scanned. Lines at most airports back up for a minimum of 10 minutes. And it can back up to an hour or more when it is crowded.

I am not opposed to making all access go through security screening. I am just saying it will take more tan one entrance point and more money than is expected.

Allen High School has more than 5000 students. They don't all start school at the same time but most are within an hour of each other. That would be a lot of kids through a single entry. Most elementary schools have far less students. My grand daughter attends 2nd grade in Plano and her school is single entrance.

[bbhack]

I can see patterns here without trying too hard. One is the demon does not enter during the initial morning rush. An emergency exit opening should set off a general alarm.

I do see triangulation going on to try to give the pathetic Uvalde police (school, city, county) some more slack. I don't see this happening. I don't see the ISD cop being able to live there anymore.

[03Lightningrocks]

I can see patterns here without trying too hard. One is the demon does not enter during the initial morning rush. An emergency exit opening should set off a general alarm.

I do see triangulation going on to try to give the pathetic Uvalde police (school, city, county) some more slack. I don't see this happening. I don't see the ISD cop being able to live there anymore.

Heck, I don't see how they are even going to use that school again. I don't think they can build a new school over the summer break but how in the world can anyone expect those children to ever go back in that building and feel safe?