why no JHPs at some ranges?

[space cat]

pretty much what the title says. i'm wondering why they don't allow shooting JHPs? i'm referring specifically to one indoor range in houston, but i've heard of others. is it some sort of safety/liability issue?

[Middle Age Russ]

Indoor ranges typically take the stance of allowing only fully jacketed or plated bullets -- ostensibly on the basis of cutting down airborne lead. The funny thing is, many "full metal jacket" bullets have exposed lead at the base, and it stands to reason that the hot combustion gasses will more easily create airborne lead than will any exposed lead in the barrel or on the nose of the bullet. When the bullet splashes at the backstop, some airborne lead will occur anyway.

[sjfcontrol]

Indoor ranges typically take the stance of allowing only fully jacketed or plated bullets -- ostensibly on the basis of cutting down airborne lead. The funny thing is, many "full metal jacket" bullets have exposed lead at the base, and it stands to reason that the hot combustion gasses will more easily create airborne lead than will any exposed lead in the barrel or on the nose of the bullet. When the bullet splashes at the backstop, some airborne lead will occur anyway.

Not all bullet backstops create "bullet splash" at the backstop. In fact, modern backstops are designed to minimize lead dust. Also, as far as CUSTOMER exposure is concerned, any lead created at the backstop is pretty much unimportant, as it is too far away from the shooters to really matter. (This, obviously, does not apply to any employees that may perform maintenance on, near or behind the traps.) Lead dust created at the shooting line is a different matter.

[Middle Age Russ]

Agreed that lead dust at the line is much more problematic than down range a bit. This is why it doesn't make much sense to ban hollow points with fully jacketed/plated bases while allowing FMJ with exposed lead at the base. Which do you think is more likely to create lead in the air?

[sjfcontrol]

Agreed that lead dust at the line is much more problematic than down range a bit. This is why it doesn't make much sense to ban hollow points with fully jacketed/plated bases while allowing FMJ with exposed lead at the base. Which do you think is more likely to create lead in the air?

I wasn't arguing with you, just pointing out that "bullet splash" is not much of a concern with modern, well maintained traps.

I will point out, however, that as far as making rules in a range goes, how are they going to enforce a "no exposed lead bases" rule? They'd have to disassemble a cartridge out of every box to figure out whether the base was exposed or not. Not very practical. Also, the ammo they SELL may have exposed bases without their even knowing it. What I'm saying is that perhaps the rule is more of a practical matter (or an urban-legend matter), than a logical one.

[Middle Age Russ]

You are most likely correct that it is simply a rule of practicality. I have to approach it from that angle, because to me it seems like more of a feel-good measure than anything else. FWIW, I enjoy well-maintained indoor ranges, despite this seemingly universal rule.

[sjfcontrol]

To the OP -- Have you tried asking them the purpose of the rule? They shouldn't have an issue explaining the reasoning behind a rule, provided you're not coming across as challenging it. Of course, depending on who you ask, they may or may not know the reasoning -- and somebody who doesn't know, may just make something up to sound intelligent.

[WildBill]

Agreed that lead dust at the line is much more problematic than down range a bit. This is why it doesn't make much sense to ban hollow points with fully jacketed/plated bases while allowing FMJ with exposed lead at the base. Which do you think is more likely to create lead in the air?

I really wouldn't put much stock in the answers of people working at the range. Unless they were involved in the design and construction of the range, they probably know only what they were told - "The rule is no hollow points!"

In my experience, a JHP will produce more airborne lead that a FMJ. The JHP will expand and fragment into smaller pieces when it hits a solid object. Depending on the range and distance, a FMJ will flatten and stay in one piece. If not filtered out through a HEPA filter, bullet fragments [dust] that are small enough to remain airborne can stay in the air be circulated by air condtioners, fans or other air currents. If not filtered completely, eventually the contaminated air at the shooting line will mix with the air from the backstop.

Lead styphnate is used as the explosive in rifle and pistol primers. When the primer explodes most of the compound decomposes and puts lead in the air, right near your nose. Some of that lead also stays in the power residue that gets on your gun and hands.

I don't really know how airborne lead comes from the exposed lead on the rear of the bullet, but I am guessing that it's much lower that from the primer and backstop.

[JJVP]

You are most likely correct that it is simply a rule of practicality. I have to approach it from that angle, because to me it seems like more of a feel-good measure than anything else. FWIW, I enjoy well-maintained indoor ranges, despite this seemingly universal rule.

This is the first time I have heard anything about JHP's not being allowed on indoor ranges. I have seen notices about some specific brands (cheap Russian ammo) on some ranges, but never about JHP's. No such thing as a universal rule.

[tomtexan]

So does this mean we should take a SCBA to the indoor range on the next visit?

[barstoolguru]

From what I hear they ban steel bullets and bullets with steel inserts because it damages the backstop but I never heard of them banning JHP

[sjfcontrol]

So does this mean we should take a SCBA to the indoor range on the next visit?

Maybe a SCGRBA -- Self Contained Gun Range Breathing Apparatus

If you think about it, a well-designed and maintained indoor range is designed to keep the fumes away from your face. At an outdoor range, for all you know, the breezes may be blowing it directly INTO you face.

[sjfcontrol]

From what I hear they ban steel bullets and bullets with steel inserts because it damages the backstop but I never heard of them banning JHP

I think they would like to avoid steel-core bullets because they can cause sparks.
REMEMBER -- Only YOU can prevent gun-range fires! -- Smokey Bear

[jtran987]

Which range?

[WildBill]

From what I hear they ban steel bullets and bullets with steel inserts because it damages the backstop but I never heard of them banning JHP

I think they would like to avoid steel-core bullets because they can cause sparks.
REMEMBER -- Only YOU can prevent gun-range fires! -- Smokey Bear

I think indoor ranges are more concerned about damage to the backstop rather than fires. JHP tear up target stands and lumber more than FMJ.

I have heard of a fire recently at an indoor range, but I don't remember the cause.

I was at an outdoor range once when a fire started on the 100 yard line. I don't know if it was steel core or tracer or ? By the time we could get a cease fire and sprint to the targets we had a 10-15 ft diameter grass fire.