A little Quail Creek love

[RoyGBiv]

RoyGBiv,
As RSOs we are trained to be loud so that we can be heard in spite of customers hearing protection. While I am known for being very loud on the range, I do not shout because I am angry or trying to berate anyone. On occasion customers wear both ear plugs and muffs and cannot hear any of the range commands so we have to raise our voices to be heard. This may be taken as “being mean” by bystanders, but we have to communicate when someone is in violation of a safety rule.
<snip>
I’m sorry but just because you are the only shooter on the pistol range, does not mean you may violate the hot range rule. Sorry. If they went overboard in telling you about that, well I will talk to them about that as well as ask them to be more attentive.

I'll own my decision to change targets when I did, and the consequences. I was 100% certain I was the only non-employee on the range, and I also knew when I did it that I'd stand a chance of getting a talking-to about it. I don't have any issue with being called on that. It was never the content of "message" that I received, but rather how it was delivered. Let's be honest here, you don't really need to hear what somebody is saying to know whether they are being intentionally belittling vs. providing constructive feedback. It's easy to tell the difference between "loud" and "intimidating". From what I've seen myself in 2010, your guys liked to skip the preliminaries and go straight to "intimidating". It was very off-putting to watch it done to others, even more so when it was applied to me.

Of course I realize this was all a few years ago. Things could very well have changed for the better since then. Unfortunately, I was not able to shoot last week so I didn't get a chance to find out firsthand.

[Winchster]

I live about 10 miles from QC, and used to go quite often. The "culture" there turned me off to the point of not returning. However, I decided to give them another opportunity, so......

Went to QC on 10/27, and between the same grouchy, rude, tall guy behind the counter and the kid that screamed at me crossing the bridge I won't be back. The guy behind the counter used to be the 100 yard RSO, and he has never been a pleasant fellow to be around. The "kid" (20-28) decided it was necessary to scream at me and my cousin about opening the action on a Model 94 and an AR, and give a very terse lecture about muzzles pointed up. For what it's worth, the action on the AR was open, and both rifles were being carried muzzle up already. If I hadn't just purchased both ammunition and a range fee, I would have left. It wasn't the content of the message, it was the delivery.

For what it's worth, both the older gentleman at the pistol range, and the middle aged guy at the 50 yard range working as RSO's were both very pleasant to deal with. A welcome change from my previous visits. However, it appears the "culture" of poor delivery still exists and even though it will mean a much longer drive, I will be going elsewhere from now on.

[QCRangeMaster]

Winchster
Thank you for posting about this incident. I'm sorry you had an unpleasant experience. I will follow up on this and see if corrective action needs to be taken.
QCRM

[Heartland Patriot]

I live about 10 miles from QC, and used to go quite often. The "culture" there turned me off to the point of not returning. However, I decided to give them another opportunity, so......

Went to QC on 10/27, and between the same grouchy, rude, tall guy behind the counter and the kid that screamed at me crossing the bridge I won't be back. The guy behind the counter used to be the 100 yard RSO, and he has never been a pleasant fellow to be around. The "kid" (20-28) decided it was necessary to scream at me and my cousin about opening the action on a Model 94 and an AR, and give a very terse lecture about muzzles pointed up. For what it's worth, the action on the AR was open, and both rifles were being carried muzzle up already. If I hadn't just purchased both ammunition and a range fee, I would have left. It wasn't the content of the message, it was the delivery.

For what it's worth, both the older gentleman at the pistol range, and the middle aged guy at the 50 yard range working as RSO's were both very pleasant to deal with. A welcome change from my previous visits. However, it appears the "culture" of poor delivery still exists and even though it will mean a much longer drive, I will be going elsewhere from now on.

None of the young guys has ever gotten loud with me, though one has a tendency to be louder than the others. In fact, I find they've been pretty friendly and I've chitchatted a bit with a couple of them. I have seen several of the RSO's get loud with some folks...not sure what the exact reasons were, though, as I was focused on my own firearms. In fact, I one guy next to me with an AR one day had some serious issues following the simplest directions and handling his pricey-looking rifle...they stayed a lot more professional with him than I would have as he was the person that has made me the most nervous while at that range. As for the man behind the counter, I know who you are talking about...IMHO, I think he's just a grouchy guy in general. Never had a problem with him, just an observation. I always bring my firearms in cases, I always speak to the RSO's and ask them where they would like me to set up, and the only times I've gotten "spoken to" was when I slipped up and and touched something on the bench when coming back from the targets. I don't want to sound like a QC "apologist"...I could see where some personalities there could probably rub the wrong way with some other folks...I just haven't had that happen to me...now, if they could only get rid of that no-FMJ rule.

[Winchster]

The grouch was just an observation. Doesn't really bother me too much. The kid that started screaming at me though really irritated me.

[QCRangeMaster]

Gentlemen,
Hard to imagine as it may be to safety minded, experienced shooters, almost every day someone (or several someones) will cross the footbridge with a loaded, uncased firearm in their hand. I have had all manner of firearms pointed at me, many with live rounds in them. From pump shotguns to AR15s with the magazine in, a round in the chamber, and the man's finger on the trigger! The most frightening thing is that this young man was carrying the firearm for his disabled father and he didn't even know how to work the action or the safety, which by the way, was on fire. I asked him to allow me to remove the magazine and lock the action open and he pointed the rifle's muzzle straight at me (finger on the trigger) when he handed it to me. His father was incredulous that I would take the firearm from his son until I removed the magazine and pulled the charging handle and flipped a live round out over my shoulder. The father looked at me with deer in the headlights eyes and said "where did that come from?" My point being that I and the other RSOs are human and subject to human emotions. We get nervous from time to time because of incidents like the one I just described. Anyone would! I,for one, have been shot through the chest by the so called "unloaded firearm" and I was looking right at the muzzle when the weapon fired from 15 feet away. Do I get nervous sometimes? You bet I do!! My usual response to customers who say "it's unloaded" is "so was the last one that shot me".

I guess I'm just asking for a little understanding about the stresses and situations this job puts on all of us. Imagine as a customer, walking across the bridge and 30% of the shooters turning and pointing their muzzles directly at you! How long would you stay around a place like that without getting a little stressed? Might you do a little "screaming" yourself after a while? I'm not trying to excuse bad behavior on our part and I try to lead by example when I am on duty. By the way, I believe when you refer to the "old guy" you are probably talking about me. I am the oldest person presently working at the range. (I am not however the "old guy" mentioned on other threads on this forum. He is no longer an RSO for us!)

I get dozens of compliments every week about how safe and well run our range is. People come up and shake my hand and say "thank you" all the time. We have hundreds of "regular" customers who come out and shoot on a regular basis. That is what we are striving for every day. If there is ever an incident in which you feel you were treated incorrectly please look me up and talk to me. While we may not always agree on every situation, I will treat you as fairly as possible.
QCRM

[Winchster]

Gentlemen,
Hard to imagine as it may be to safety minded, experienced shooters, almost every day someone (or several someones) will cross the footbridge with a loaded, uncased firearm in their hand. I have had all manner of firearms pointed at me, many with live rounds in them. From pump shotguns to AR15s with the magazine in, a round in the chamber, and the man's finger on the trigger! The most frightening thing is that this young man was carrying the firearm for his disabled father and he didn't even know how to work the action or the safety, which by the way, was on fire. I asked him to allow me to remove the magazine and lock the action open and he pointed the rifle's muzzle straight at me (finger on the trigger) when he handed it to me. His father was incredulous that I would take the firearm from his son until I removed the magazine and pulled the charging handle and flipped a live round out over my shoulder. The father looked at me with deer in the headlights eyes and said "where did that come from?" My point being that I and the other RSOs are human and subject to human emotions. We get nervous from time to time because of incidents like the one I just described. Anyone would! I,for one, have been shot through the chest by the so called "unloaded firearm" and I was looking right at the muzzle when the weapon fired from 15 feet away. Do I get nervous sometimes? You bet I do!! My usual response to customers who say "it's unloaded" is "so was the last one that shot me".

I guess I'm just asking for a little understanding about the stresses and situations this job puts on all of us. Imagine as a customer, walking across the bridge and 30% of the shooters turning and pointing their muzzles directly at you! How long would you stay around a place like that without getting a little stressed? Might you do a little "screaming" yourself after a while? I'm not trying to excuse bad behavior on our part and I try to lead by example when I am on duty. By the way, I believe when you refer to the "old guy" you are probably talking about me. I am the oldest person presently working at the range. (I am not however the "old guy" mentioned on other threads on this forum. He is no longer an RSO for us!)

I get dozens of compliments every week about how safe and well run our range is. People come up and shake my hand and say "thank you" all the time. We have hundreds of "regular" customers who come out and shoot on a regular basis. That is what we are striving for every day. If there is ever an incident in which you feel you were treated incorrectly please look me up and talk to me. While we may not always agree on every situation, I will treat you as fairly as possible.
QCRM

Based entirely on your responses here, I'm willing to give y'all another go. You've made a reasoned and logical case, and changed my mind.

[Heartland Patriot]

Like I said, I've never personally had any problems with any of the folks working at QC. And watching that guy with the AR next to me that day showed me that it is pretty easy to get worried about some of the folks that come and shoot there. I'm going to do my best to make it out there on Friday. I'm sure I'll have a good time like I usually do.

[QCRangeMaster]

Thank you guys. Please look me up when you come out.
QCRM

[docaw]

I've been to Quail Creek quite a bit in the past few months (every 10 days or so). They've mounted scopes on my deer rifles, given recommendations for a great 1911 handgun, spent some time teaching me about external hammers and treated me with respect every time.

Back in 2008, I was there and definitely noticed a different culture. The guys working the range just seemed to have an edge that told me they thought every customer was an idiot and a danger to himself and others. And, they definitely did not communicate appropriately when someone stepped to the bench to lay a stapler down after posting targets, forgot to leave the chamber open during a cease fire, or fired off multiple rounds too rapidly. They were rude and treated customers with contempt and disrespect. I was more focused on making sure I didn't do anything to set them off instead of enjoying shooting. So, I quit going there. That was 2008.

Back in the summer, 2012, I went back and the change in the culture is noticeable. Since going back, I've seen incidents such as the ones I mentioned above. When those incidents occurred, the person needed to be corrected. Every single time this has occurred, I have seen the ROs speak calmly and respectfully to the offender. I personally have witnessed no yelling, berating or inappropriate actions since returning.

I don't know these guys personally (couldn't tell you their names). But, at the end of the day, working around shooters who may have no experience or training has to be unnerving at best. Frankly, I want them to do their job. Call it when it happens. But, do it in a manner that doesn't embarrass, humiliate or robs the dignity from a customer. Save the tough action for those who won't listen. Honestly, that's the change I've noticed at Quail Creek. When I started back last summer, I was cautioned at times until the rules and procedures were ingrained in my memory. But each time, the RO walked over and spoke to me with respect. I've seen others, new customers, approach the bench at the wrong time. Every time, the RO treated them professionally.

I like Quail Creek. The outdoor setting just fits me better. I go there for peaceful and relaxing fun. I sincerely believe that, at least in my experience, the workforce there now supports and promotes that same attitude. I'm glad they do their job and I'm glad they do it professionally and respectfully. They act like they are glad you're there and they want you to come back. Back in 2008, changes needed to happen. IMHO, I believe those changes have occurred at Quail Creek and I for one am glad because I love the range.