Quail Creek Shooting Range

[Chris Rainey]

I work at Quail Creek Shooting range and run the tactical ranges behind the office. I started the business 21/2 years ago and have been working steadily towards building a family business. I am sorry that anyone has a bad time at Quail Creek as it is a friendly place. I have personally worked hard to change that image. We do have a number folks that frequent the range and I suppose some things are going to happen. No one should be talked down too in a condescending tone. We will enforce safety issues though and those can be done nicely, most of the time. The shooting industry itself could be friendlier, but I suppose we have been under assault for so long that it has become alright to be unfriendly. If anyone has a problem at Quail Creek they can come see me behind the office, up on the hill. We will sort it out together. Chris

[PocketGroove]

Love your range! Had a great time and all the safeties were respectful dudes.

[The Annoyed Man]

I work at Quail Creek Shooting range and run the tactical ranges behind the office. I started the business 21/2 years ago and have been working steadily towards building a family business. I am sorry that anyone has a bad time at Quail Creek as it is a friendly place. I have personally worked hard to change that image. We do have a number folks that frequent the range and I suppose some things are going to happen. No one should be talked down too in a condescending tone. We will enforce safety issues though and those can be done nicely, most of the time. The shooting industry itself could be friendlier, but I suppose we have been under assault for so long that it has become alright to be unfriendly. If anyone has a problem at Quail Creek they can come see me behind the office, up on the hill. We will sort it out together. Chris

Chris, I appreciate your taking the time to post this, and I'll take you at your word that if I'm confronted again the way I have been in the past, that you'll deal with it if I take it to your office. I have two criticisms or comments, and those would have to be addressed before I would ever come back to your range.

1 — The RSOs disrespectful and confrontational attitudes actually create an unsafe environment rather than improving it. You are going to have to either fire them all, or subject them all to major retraining before I'll ever come back. I don't willingly walk into unsafe situations. Among other things, their retraining MUST include the NRA Basic Pistol Instructor's Course, the NRA Basic Rifle Instructor's Course, and the NRA RSO Course, because they don't really know what they are talking about. Beyond that, they should all be required to attend a CHL class, whether or not they actually want to apply for and get one. They don't know squat about the law when it comes to CHL, and they have disseminated incorrect information and made claims that wouldn't last 5 minutes under examination. THAT HAS TO STOP.

2 — The RSOs need to be required to take some kind of sales/personal improvement course to learn better how to deal with people. One of your guys snatched boxes of ammo out of my hand, ammo that I was NOT firing, and actually physically confiscated it from me and put it in the back of his Mule. That was MY property, not his, and he had NO right to do that. He could have just as easily politely told me that that this ammo is not allowed on the property, and would I please go put it in the trunk of my car, and I would have gladly complied. You can tell that jerk that if he ever talks to me again like that in front of my son and my son's friend off your property like he did to me on your property, I'd be inclined to whup him if it weren't illegal to do so. I'm not having that from some oaf who doesn't know the first thing about human dignity and respect for others, and who knows even less about the law.

Your range is conveniently located. I would consider it as an alternative if I new that I would be given a little respect as a paying customer when I was there. Until your RSOs pull their heads out of their posteriors, I won't be coming back. My fear for you is that your guys have been getting away with this crap for so long that they either won't pull in their horns, or they won't know how to pull in their horns.

Good luck. We can always use more ranges in the area, but you've got a HUGE job ahead of your to undo the damage your employees have done. I sincerely hope you can reverse that, both for the sake of your business, and for the sake of your employees' personal credibility.

[fickman]

A couple of thoughts:

@TAM: when did the incident you describe occur? If it was more than a few years ago, is there a chance the bad apples are already gone?

@Chris (OP): The range is conveniently located, but I might suggest that the name carries no brand equity in a large part of the local shooting community and should be viewed as a liability, not an asset. If things really are changing - whether due to new ownership, new management, or a new commitment to positive, cooperative, friendly service at every contact point with customers, then changing the name would be a great first step to advertising the changes that the place has undergone. It's a way to distance from the damaged reputation of the range and demonstrate that the location is the only thing that's stayed the same. I hope what you say is accurate and that things are improving rapidly.

I haven't personally visited this range yet, but I'm right up the road from it near Cabela's. I've been close to visiting several times, but the legends of the Range Officers led me to drive 3-5x the distance to go elsewhere. There's about to be a new indoor range opening nearby on I-35W, but I currently travel to Winchester or The Shooter's Club (and infrequently Bass Pro) to do my shooting. I'll admit that even if you had the friendliest range in the world, shooting outside during the summer doesn't sound very attractive, but I'd definitely consider it from October through May.

[fickman]

I might suggest that the name carries no brand equity in a large part of the local shooting community and should be viewed as a liability, not an asset.

Evidence: http://www.google.com/search?q=quail+cr ... ting+range

The negative threads from this messageboard alone begin as the fourth result to a simple Google search of the name.

On the bright side, if substantive changes really are underway, the reputation of the range can only improve. . . which would ultimately benefit everybody (local shooters, the business, the surrounding area, etc.).

[The Annoyed Man]

A couple of thoughts:

@TAM: when did the incident you describe occur? If it was more than a few years ago, is there a chance the bad apples are already gone?

Fickman, the incident that drove me off occurred in late 2007/early 2008, and it was the second such incident. My son was still in high school, and he graduated in '08. The first incident was when the RSO made me uncase my rifle about 15-20 feet back from the firing line and carry it forward to the available bench; requiring me to leave my $200 rifle case laying in the dirt in the hot sun while I shot as some kind of "I'll show you" punishment. Then, after I finished shooting, I had to carry my rifle back to the hot case which had been laying in the Texas sun for an hour or more, and case up the rifle back there 20 ft back of the line before I could leave. He did this to me after literally screaming at me with spittle flying out of his mouth because I carried my rifle case forward to the firing line to uncase the weapon in the shade at my assigned bench, while the line was hot. When he had me open my rifle case back there in the dirt, it revealed a rifle with the muzzle pointed at the backs of the active shooters on the line!!! The only reason this was done safely was because I inspected my rifle to make sure it was unloaded before carrying back and forth like that, and because I knew it was unloaded when I cased it up before leaving the house. He did not inspect it at either juncture. He is a dolt. He is a big, stupid, ass, and I think he must have been drunk. It's the only way to explain his irrational behavior. The incident mentioned in my post above was the second time I had been abused without provocation by one of their RSOs, and it wasn't the same guy each time. So clearly there is a pattern there.

As to the bad apples, the latest Quail Creek rotten RSO incident was reported on this forum just 4 days ago: viewtopic.php?p=567961#p567961" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, so my guess is that there is still at least one bad apple on the payroll.

I agree with fickman that, at this point, there is little or no brand equity left in the name "Quail Creek," and even if they fired all their RSOs and hired some competent, NRA certified RSOs, the brand is damaged beyond repair, and a simple change in staff isn't likely to fix the business problems. Honestly, I would like to see them succeed. I would like to have alternatives to Elm Fork (a range I like very much, but which is sometimes full to capacity), or to paying the buy in costs and deal with the waiting lists to get into another gun club with a good rifle range. More good and well-run ranges are a valuable asset to the community. Ranges run by RSOs who treat everyone with contempt unless you're part of their little clique of navel gazers are not only a waste of oxygen, they can turn new shooters off to the shooting sports, doing long term damage to expanding the expression of our 2nd Amendment rights.

[fickman]

@TAM: I missed the new thread. . . the timing of your incident was the only possible wiggle room I saw for the OP to convince us that things are changing. If your incdient had been in '06 and he said they just cleaned house in October, well, you know, but it doesn't matter in light of the most recent thread anyway.

Looks like the couple of jerks they still employ will do their best to run the whole place out of business.

Free markets are great.

[Texas Flyer]

I started all of this with my post "Quail Creek Shooting Range Problems" from almost a week ago. I got to meet with Chris and Hank today and wanted to post this here as I did on my thread:

Hello again everyone. Thanks for the replies to this posting. The owners out at Quail Creek actually got in contact with me after I posted this and invited me for a face to face visit to talk about the incident that happened to us last Friday. Fortunately I was going right across the highway from there today anyway and was able to stop in with my nieces in tow just like Friday. After talking with them today, reading everything posted on this forum and talking to other people, I have decided that I WILL keep going back to Quail Creek to shoot. I cannot stress enough how concerned the owners, Chris and Hank, were about what happened while we were there and wanted to make sure that we have pleasant experiences at their facilities in the future. The fact of the matter is that if you do encounter a problem and can be rational about it, Hank and Chris are more than willing to help get it resolved. I am looking forward to dealing with them in the future and I hope that everyone else goes out and gives Quail Creek a fair chance. Thanks again to Chris and Hank for their invite, hospitality, and customer service!

Seriously though, if you had an indecent that is more than a couple of years old then I suggest you go back and try them again. After today, I feel that the owners certainly do care about their customer service. I will be going back...

[LeonCarr]

Mr. Texas Flyer,

If you mind me asking, did they know which RO you were talking about and what did they say about his behavior or lack of behavior?

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[bigmoney]

I agree with TAM and really hope you find some quality individuals to officiate the ranges. My personal bad incident happened about 14 years ago when I was learning to shoot and handle firearms. I was with my dad on the trap range with a few other gentlemen that were not with us. with my nerviousness about learning to sport I goofed and allowed the barrell to pass over the RO's foot area, pointing downward, and instead of anything along the area of giving advice or even a fairly rude attempt of correction, he straight stood up, got in my face, yanked the gun away and proceeded to chew me out and threaten me about what would happen if I ever did that again. We imediately left and it was about 8 years before I ever picked up a gun again. In comparison to how terrifyed I felt. It was only 2 years after my dad and I crashed a plane on landing that I regained the currage to get in another plane. I'm sure that guy is very long gone, but that memory will prevent me from ever going back or recommending anyone go back. And anytime I visit justin to see my friends, we'll still travel the distance to Bass Pro or Elm Fork.

I hope you have good luck in turning that place around, I really do, but I can never return there.
Good luck

[Ed4032]

Glad to hear you've changed the attitudes around there. But too late for me too. I haven't been there in several years but it was the range nazi that made my decision [abbreviated profanity deleted] me. I have since joined DPC and love that place. I rarely shoot anywhere else.

[ddstuder]

I do not do well with people talking down to me!

I have never been treated poorly there, but have witnessed the RO's acting like Drill Instructors toward new recruits!

There are plenty of other places to shoot without being treated like a kindergartner!

I for one will not return to this range! (unless TAM says its OK )

[texas297]

What chaps me about the range is the mixed signals/communications.

I am an LEO and usually come up there with fellow LEO and use the LEO only range. Done that several times as there is not another range close by like that. The problem is one person tells us we can use our AR's then after firing them for some time, some RO comes over and jumps our tails and tells us NO AR's!!! This has happened twice no less! That's my main problem with QC.

[suthdj]

I have been there twice so far and no problems. Only thing I thought was out of place was when the RO said "If you need your targets get them right now" I thought it was a little parental to say "Right now " instead of just "Now" but to each their own. Face to face they have all been very nice. Time will tell.