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DO NOT POST DIRECT DPS PHONE NUMBERS!!!

Last post by Charles L. Cotton « Mon May 16, 2016 3:42 pm
Posted in Site Announcements, Questions & Suggestions

by Charles L. Cotton » Mon May 16, 2016 3:42 pm » in Site Announcements, Questions & Suggestions

Don't even think of posting the direct line phone numbers to the DPS Director or anyone else within DPS. If the number isn't available on the DPS...

0 Replies

344714 Views

Last post by Charles L. Cotton
Mon May 16, 2016 3:42 pm

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Last post

9th Circuit denies Peruta appeal

Last post by mr1337 « Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:43 am
Replies: 10
by mr1337 » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:30 pm

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onclick= window.open(this.href);return false;

Definitely some great news for our friends on the west coast. We're gaining ground everywhere, guys.

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Here's the video of the hearing:

Video is a little choppy in some places.

10 Replies

2475 Views

Last post by mr1337
Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:43 am
Maybe reciprocity with Maine? in the not to distant future?

Last post by 2farnorth « Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:21 pm
Replies: 6
by 2farnorth » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:31 pm

First post

Could reciprocity with Maine be coming.

From the NRA-ILA page:

A bill eliminating limitations on state reciprocity for concealed handgun permits...

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I quit flying 12 years ago. :grumble Besides flying ino that area where you may have a weather diversion into Boston, NY, or Newark is not good...

6 Replies

1194 Views

Last post by 2farnorth
Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:21 pm
St. Louis Zoo Gets TRO to Ban Open Carry

Last post by Keith B « Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:06 pm

by Keith B » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:06 pm

Missouri is generally an open carry state. Until recently, municipalities could ban open carry by ordinance. However, the Missouri Legislature just...

0 Replies

1072 Views

Last post by Keith B
Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:06 pm
Travelling to OR, CA, OR, WA, back to OR.

Last post by txglock21 « Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:19 am
Replies: 5
by koine2002 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:40 pm

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I'm joining my family (mother, kid-sister, unworthy brother-in-law--don't worry I love him, and my nephews) for a family vacation. Unfortunately,...

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Leave the gun, take the cannoli. :biggrinjester:

5 Replies

1037 Views

Last post by txglock21
Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:19 am
Oregon working on reciprocity

Last post by chasfm11 « Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:32 pm
Replies: 5
by Jasonw560 » Fri May 29, 2015 6:35 pm

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It's up again, and they are having a committee meeting on it tentatively Monday. They call it a work session . I say tentatively because they've...

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We can only hope. I don't expect that many of the remaining States besides the ones that you mentioned are open to reciprocity with Texas. The right...

5 Replies

2945 Views

Last post by chasfm11
Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:32 pm
Is "Shall Issue" in NY's future?

Last post by jimlongley « Thu May 28, 2015 11:15 pm
Replies: 25
by C-dub » Mon May 25, 2015 7:43 am
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onclick= window.open(this.href);return false;

It's logic like this that has been getting overruled in appeals and federal courts in other areas...

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Grew up outside of Albany, but eventually covered the whole state for facets of my job as an engineer for the phone company.
25 Replies

4581 Views

Last post by jimlongley
Thu May 28, 2015 11:15 pm
More Big Brother: NYC's Gunshot Detection System

Last post by drjoker « Tue May 26, 2015 1:05 am
Replies: 7
by Vol Texan » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:47 am

First post

It seems that this system doesn't really perform as expected. But, as expected, the city has found more uses for it anyway.

From the article:

Last post

Not only that, they also have long range scanners that are man portable to do a high tech strip search of you to look for guns. It is...

7 Replies

2935 Views

Last post by drjoker
Tue May 26, 2015 1:05 am
Montana: 70 years for man who shot thief

Last post by drjoker « Tue May 12, 2015 5:33 pm
Replies: 30
by Charles L. Cotton » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:55 pm
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It wasn't that he set a trap , but it was his finishing shot that got him in hot water.
30 Replies

5658 Views

Last post by drjoker
Tue May 12, 2015 5:33 pm
Ohio CHL Visiting Texas

Last post by Jumping Frog « Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:11 am
Replies: 35
by The End » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:03 am
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Ok, guys I need a little help. I'm a member of Ohio Carry Forums but thought I'd ask my questions here. I will be visiting my wife's dad and mom in...

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Yes, please note that Texas will only recognize an Ohio CHL that is issued or renewed on or after March 23, 2015.

An Ohio CHL with a license issued...
35 Replies

8129 Views

Last post by Jumping Frog
Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:11 am
Ohio Now Recognizes All Out-Of-State Concealed Carry Permits

Last post by Jumping Frog « Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:53 am
Replies: 1
by tomneal » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:12 pm

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Sounds like we can now carry in Ohio

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Yep, they do.

Previously discussed here: onclick= window.open(this.href);return false;

Note almost a month after the reciprocity agreement was...

1 Replies

911 Views

Last post by Jumping Frog
Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:53 am
SC Proposed enhanced concealed carry law

Last post by BlueMerle « Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:07 am
Replies: 26
by BlueMerle » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:46 am
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I ran across this story at about a new bill that would create an enhanced concealed carry license.

FTA:

Emphasis mine.

I'm ok with all of the...

Last post

True, and that's a whole different issue :mrgreen:
26 Replies

4258 Views

Last post by BlueMerle
Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:07 am
What do I need to know about Tennessee

Last post by SewTexas « Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:54 pm
Replies: 12
by barres » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:12 pm

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I may be travelling to Tennessee with my family this summer, and I have my Texas CHL. Just curious from those who have been there recently what I...

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I'm suppose to be at a picnic for one night, I haven't decided if I'll keep it concealed or keep it in my glove box. ;-) you have a good time as well.

12 Replies

4010 Views

Last post by SewTexas
Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:54 pm
FL: Senate Comm. Chair Bottles Up Campus Carry

Last post by jimlongley « Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:57 am
Replies: 2
by ELB » Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:58 pm

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Which works both ways, that's how the IL CHL law got through.

2 Replies

859 Views

Last post by jimlongley
Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:57 am
Kansas Joins Constitutional Carry States

Last post by Keith B « Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:53 pm
Replies: 1
by gmckinl » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:08 am

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Kansans soon can carry concealed weapons without permits or training under a bill signed by Gov. Sam Brownback on Thursday. The new law, which kicks...

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Topic already running here onclick= window.open(this.href);return false;

1 Replies

1704 Views

Last post by Keith B
Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:53 pm
Pennsylvania CHL Holder Arrested in New Jersey

Last post by gljjt « Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:26 am
Replies: 77
by Keith B » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:23 am
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A new CHL holder from Pennsylvania was arrested for crossing into New Jersey with her gun in the car. She stated she was unaware of the laws. This is...

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The charge was reduced to a misdemeanor in a first time offenders program after public pressure because Ray Rice was allowed in the program and she...
77 Replies

15872 Views

Last post by gljjt
Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:26 am
PA: And now for eine kleine Schadenfreude...

Last post by ELB « Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:13 pm
Replies: 6
by ELB » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:12 pm

First post

Background :

In January of this year Firearms Owners Against Crime (FOAC), a division of Prince Law Offices, and three individuals filed suit in...

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A little more: onclick= window.open(this.href);return false;

Note this is a different lawyer and a different set of lawsuits. Harrisburg not doing...

6 Replies

1247 Views

Last post by ELB
Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:13 pm
Ohio now recognizes Texas CHL

Last post by Keith B « Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:25 am
Replies: 1
by txpilot » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:11 am

First post

For those that may be interested (and forgot), Ohio now recognizes the Texas CHL (as of today)!

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Topic already running here onclick= window.open(this.href);return false;

1 Replies

977 Views

Last post by Keith B
Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:25 am
Carry in Other States - What a Mess

Last post by comp73 « Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:43 pm
Replies: 13
by anygunanywhere » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:16 pm

First post

The wife and I are taking a trip to Norfolk, Virginia the next two weeks with a couple of stops on the way there and back. We are going to a reunion...

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Another fellow Bubblehead :patriot:

I spent all my time on fast attacks, first in Groton then in San Diego. Thats pretty awesome about the reunion....

13 Replies

2002 Views

Last post by comp73
Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:43 pm
TX resident with NV CCW

Last post by Gaidheal « Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:20 am
Replies: 2
by BCGlocker » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:09 pm

First post

I just moved to TX 6 weeks ago and received my TDL and auto license plate about 3 weeks ago. I am waiting and hopefully receive my CHL in the next...

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Definitely! And as above, welcome to Texas!

Just make sure you are in accordance with all the Texas laws and provisions as that is what applies...

2 Replies

1540 Views

Last post by Gaidheal
Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:20 am
CCW in Lousiana Casinos

Last post by jmra « Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:37 pm
Replies: 5
by Setxjeff » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:20 pm

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Carrying in Lousiana Casinos. La changed some of their carry laws in Places that sell acohol in 2013, it goes to what kind of liquor license they...

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OC is legal in La, but unless you like the taste of pavement I wouldn't suggest OCing in populated areas.

5 Replies

4664 Views

Last post by jmra
Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:37 pm
WV: Constitutional Carry

Last post by steveincowtown « Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:18 pm
Replies: 3
by RoyGBiv » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:46 pm

First post

Passed by the Senate, then passed by the House with one Amendment.
The Senate will need to approve just the one amendment (changing the age from 18...

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Yup.

3 Replies

1147 Views

Last post by steveincowtown
Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:18 pm
Anti-gun dean shoots student in the head...

Last post by philip964 « Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:55 am
Replies: 5
by AndyC » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:21 pm

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... the student who was selling marijuana for said dean, that is.

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All fiction. Guns are illegal in Boston.

5 Replies

1198 Views

Last post by philip964
Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:55 am
Michigan: OC in schools?

Last post by Jumping Frog « Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:58 am
Replies: 4
by chasfm11 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:50 pm

First post

Daily Caller, article by Chuch Ross 3/6/15

So from the article, Michigan allows CPL holders to open carry in school buildings but restricts...

Last post

I would definitely open carry there if faced with the same circumstances -- attending a school function, illegal to conceal carry, legal to open...

4 Replies

1117 Views

Last post by Jumping Frog
Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:58 am
Republican Marine Col. Enters Race to Replace Boxer in CA

Last post by stroo « Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:41 pm
Replies: 1
by RoyGBiv » Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:24 pm

First post

I know not many of us here vote in California, but I thought this was worth sharing.
Please pass along to any pro-2A family/friends who vote in Cali....

Last post

More power to him. As a Republican, he is going to have a hard time winning in California although being a Hispanic might make it possible.

1 Replies

747 Views

Last post by stroo
Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:41 pm
Nevada and Front Sight

Last post by JP171 « Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:19 am
Replies: 7
by TXlaw1 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:06 pm

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I am considering attending some training at Front Sight at Pahrump Nevada. But I understand they do not have reciprocity with Texas. Does anyone have...

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on top of all the other stuff about FS its a commie fornia company, no thanx

7 Replies

2324 Views

Last post by JP171
Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:19 am
Multiple States Advance “Constitutional Carry”

Last post by mr1337 « Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:19 pm
Replies: 5
by RoyGBiv » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:34 pm

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Multiple States Advance “Constitutional Carry” aka Permitless Gun Carry Bills
onclick= window.open(this.href);return false;

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Yes, yes, I know. :banghead:

Maybe we can try it again in 4 or 6 years. (Don't see it happening in 2 years, to be honest)

5 Replies

1061 Views

Last post by mr1337
Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:19 pm
Missouri Lawakers Override Governors Veto

Last post by mojo84 « Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:18 pm
Replies: 73
by Keith B » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:06 am
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Missouri lawmakers voted yesterday to override the Governor's veto on a firearms bill that allows firearms training and carry for teachers in...

Last post

Homicide and murder are two different things. Makes me wonder about their stats.
73 Replies

12854 Views

Last post by mojo84
Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:18 pm
New Hampshire: State Could End Concealed Carry Permits

Last post by tms119 « Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:30 pm
Replies: 3
by tomtexan » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:23 am

3 Replies

1043 Views

Last post by tms119
Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:30 pm
Anyone with a California CHL?

Last post by chuck j « Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:51 pm
Replies: 10
by AlaskanInTexas » Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:25 pm

First post

There is a slight chance that I might be taking a position in California. I've looked into the CHL laws a little. Wondering if any of you have done...

Last post

Just from what I hear the California CHL is much like big foot , a much talked about but seldom seen phenomena .

10 Replies

1653 Views

Last post by chuck j
Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:51 pm
MO: senator to mandate warning before deadly force

Last post by Redneck_Buddha « Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:32 pm
Replies: 11
by A-R » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:28 pm

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Or the pump action of of 12 gauge loaded with 00.

11 Replies

2156 Views

Last post by Redneck_Buddha
Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:32 pm
Pot smoking and concealed carry

Last post by Scott B. « Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:24 pm
Replies: 23
by philip964 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:45 pm
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Since pot is legal in Colorado, gun rights group wants pot smokers to carry.

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Saw this in TheGunMag.com, Feb 2015 issue, it's a 2nd Amendment Foundation publication.

After Initiative 529 in WA, 'Evergreen State pot smokers are...
23 Replies

4790 Views

Last post by Scott B.
Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:24 pm
Kansas Bill - Concealed Carry Without Permit

Last post by mr1337 « Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:28 pm
Replies: 1
by gthaustex » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:22 pm

First post

Kansas is making a move to allow concealed carry without a permit. Looks like they have a lot of support in the legislature. Of course the antis are...

Last post

Definitely slinging FUD.

The need for a permit is not going to stop a criminal from carrying a gun. However, it will stop a law-abiding citizen from...

1 Replies

770 Views

Last post by mr1337
Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:28 pm
Wisconsin newspaper: Repeal the "stupid" 2nd Amendment

Last post by cb1000rider « Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:58 am
Replies: 6
by n5wd » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:11 pm

First post

A Wisconsin newspaper has called for the repeal of the stupid Second Amendment.

TFC/TCHLForum's Charles Cotton, quoted by KTRH's story, calls that...

Last post

I think it's an interesting topic in theory. I don't focus on the right to keep arms, but the right to bear arms isn't clearly accepted in todays...

6 Replies

1136 Views

Last post by cb1000rider
Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:58 am
DC Still Playing Games Issuing Permits

Last post by rbwhatever1 « Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:40 pm
Replies: 11
by Keith B » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:28 am

First post

Really not a state, but DC is still playing all the angles to make it virtually impossible to get a concealed carry permit.

onclick=...

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Washington DC. The Bastion of Liberty. The Heartbeat of a Free People. The Defender of the U.S. Constitution and Enforcer of the Bill of Rights, from...

11 Replies

3428 Views

Last post by rbwhatever1
Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:40 pm
Ohio will recognize Texas starting mid March, 2015

Last post by Dadtodabone « Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:49 pm
Replies: 20
by Jumping Frog » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:24 am
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Ohio just passed a major firearms bill that is expected to take effect about March 12, 2015 (90 days after signing). (I'll edit this when the exact...

Last post

+1 for East Tennessee and/or western North Carolina, a cruise on the Blue Ridge is spectacular for early fall color.
20 Replies

3080 Views

Last post by Dadtodabone
Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:49 pm
MD - Valid Concern?

Last post by chasfm11 « Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:42 pm
Replies: 13
by chasfm11 » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:29 am

First post

We often travel from TX to PA and there is no good way to get there without going through MD. During last year's trip, we went through KY and ended...

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:iagree: But I'm not sure that all of the State troopers buy into the Baltimore mentality. When I drove the Eastern Shore a fair amount (worked out...

13 Replies

1944 Views

Last post by chasfm11
Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:42 pm
CA: Ka-Ching! $$$

Last post by TXlaw1 « Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:42 pm
Replies: 2
by ELB » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:12 pm

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onclick= window.open(this.href);return false;

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A good day indeed for justice and the Second Amendment Rights of American citizens! And a good pay day for the attorneys from a judge who took time...

2 Replies

1060 Views

Last post by TXlaw1
Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:42 pm
California bound

Last post by Charlies.Contingency « Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:22 am
Replies: 17
by cowhow » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:42 pm
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Over the Holidays the wife and I are travelling to the Bay area to see family. I am taking a CCW, probably a baby Glock. My cocern isnt Arizona or...

Last post

You know what will happen, in any disaster, other places are screaming that it's the end of the world, but when the same things happen, we're on the...
17 Replies

3062 Views

Last post by Charlies.Contingency
Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:22 am
State Supreme Court says 2A covers dirks & batons...

Last post by ELB « Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:14 pm

by ELB » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:14 pm

...in Connecticut, says the state Supreme Court.

Discussion at Volokh: onclick= window.open(this.href);return false;

Direct link to case decision:

0 Replies

819 Views

Last post by ELB
Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:14 pm
CHL legal in California schools?

Last post by VMI77 « Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:30 pm
Replies: 17
by mojo84 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:12 pm
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This surprised me some. Him being arrested by mistake or being disciplined by the school administrators doesnt surprise me .

onclick=...
17 Replies

3849 Views

Last post by VMI77
Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:30 pm
WI: police offer to check your home for guns

Last post by LDB415 « Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:25 pm
Replies: 21
by A-R » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:44 pm
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Will they check for termites while they are at it? :biggrinjester:
21 Replies

5355 Views

Last post by LDB415
Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:25 pm
More Police Abuse in New York

Last post by rbwhatever1 « Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:45 am
Replies: 2
by Keith B » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:03 pm

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:smilelol5:

Last post

Hilarious!

2 Replies

1033 Views

Last post by rbwhatever1
Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:45 am
Ever check in a gun at Baltimore's BWI Airport??

Last post by Jumping Frog « Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:36 am
Replies: 5
by Jumping Frog » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:18 pm

First post

I've got two choices on an upcoming PA business trip. I could fly into IAD Dulles VA and drive up to PA. I know VA and PA are both firearms-friendly....

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It isn't the money, it is the time. Flying direct to Harrisburg, by the time I connect (with the layover time), it is quicker to fly close and drive.

5 Replies

2032 Views

Last post by Jumping Frog
Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:36 am
PA Open Carry

Last post by MeMelYup « Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:39 pm
Replies: 1
by ralewis » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:12 pm

First post

Went looking around for examples of PA open carry while reading some Open Carry threads in another section on the forum. I travel there a lot (carry...

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They might not have been concerned because of the body language of the persons wearing the firearms. The people wearing the firearms were not trying...

1 Replies

895 Views

Last post by MeMelYup
Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:39 pm
Arkansas

Last post by bigity « Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:37 pm
Replies: 7
by bigity » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:00 pm

First post

I am headed to northwest Arkansas for Christmas, and I noticed the forum suggested in the thread for similar forums is now pointing to some...

Last post

If Pops objects he can come see the grandkids in Texas :D

7 Replies

2137 Views

Last post by bigity
Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:37 pm
California has doubled down on stupidity

Last post by VMI77 « Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:02 pm
Replies: 12
by SQLGeek » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:42 am

First post

By passing Prop 47, Californians reduced several felonies down to cite and release misdemeanors. Among them, petty theft under $950 and this...

Last post

Yes, and it worked well, for awhile.

And yes, but most people are too ignorant to tie the two together, and many think they're not affected, just...

12 Replies

2442 Views

Last post by VMI77
Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:02 pm
Guns on Campus

Last post by mr1337 « Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:25 pm
Replies: 2
by mikeloc » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:46 am

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I still support guns on campus; but you've got to keep your finger OFF THE TRIGGER.

onclick= window.open(this.href);return false;

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How about keeping it in the holster when you're doing your business? Always worked okay for me, and there's zero chance of a discharge if I can't...

2 Replies

1051 Views

Last post by mr1337
Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:25 pm
SAF Sues IL over Non-Res Restrictions

Last post by MeMelYup « Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:26 pm
Replies: 2
by RoyGBiv » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:18 am

First post

:hurry:

Last post

They need to file that in D.C. also.

2 Replies

1268 Views

Last post by MeMelYup
Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:26 pm
Living in Florida now.

Last post by equin « Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:33 pm
Replies: 2
by texanron » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:15 pm

First post

It's been almost two years since I've been active on this forum. I moved to PA in May '12 and then to Florida in May '13. Looks like the family and I...

Last post

30 minutes from Gainesville? I lived in Palatka in the early 90's for half a year. Nice little town. I'm sure it's changed quite a bit since then,...

2 Replies

1910 Views

Last post by equin
Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:33 pm
Moving to Louisiana, "transfer" permit?

Last post by hpcatx « Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:13 am
Replies: 4
by mikeb95 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:03 pm

First post

strange question but figured I'd ask. I currently have a CCW permit in Texas and planning on moving to Louisiana next year, does anyone know if I...

Last post

Thanks! A very important factor that I overlooked in my response and a potential legal trouble spot.

I've heard rumors that there's a 60-day grace...

4 Replies

6156 Views

Last post by hpcatx
Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:13 am

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