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JSThane wrote:Curious here, and I know this is diverging slightly from the topic, but with this stoppage/jam/malfunction, are you referencing the stoppage induced by having a round stuck between the bolt and the shell lifter, with the bolt closed? I ask, because I'm not conceiving of how a double-feed requiring impact to clear would be possible with my Mossberg 590, but I have experienced that exact user-induced failure with an 870 during a stress course, and witnessed it a few more times with worn retention teeth on 870 magazines (combined with clumsy/fumbled reloading), allowing the just-loaded round to pop out of the magazine and between the lifter and bolt.

If this is indeed the jam you're referencing, I'm in full agreement on the Knoxx/Blackhawk stock. If it's not, I'd like to know exactly what jam you're inducing, so I can figure out a way to avoid doing it with my own Mossberg (fitted with the said pogo stick, which is wonderful for recoil reduction, but admittedly has its short points).

Sir, that is exactly what I am talking about. It's less likely to happen with a Mossberg due to the cut out shell lifter, but it's generally caused by the user short stroking the forearm and failing to eject the spent casing before pushing the forearm forward, inducing a double feed.

Everyone is looking for a high priced technological answer for poor or absent technique. When I do a 1 day Shotgun Instructor Intensive Immersion course, I typically shoot 250 - 350 rounds in one day with no discomfort or bruising, wearing nothing more than a wicking polo shirt. I am not a large or heavily muscled individual, but everyone I teach is able to reduce the push back of the 12 gauge by at least 50% (subjective) by using nothing more than creator issued tools - their hands and arms.

My limited experience has taught me that the more complex you make a weapon system, the more likely it will fail when you need it the most. I have had that happen to me, so I try and keep my systems as simple as possible.

At the end of my Reduced Light Instructor course my final death by Power Point slide reads,

"“No amount of cool gear will make up for a fundamental lack of skill.”

jayinsat wrote:It's the only long gun I have ever owned and the only other experience was with a long gun was the M16 in basic training in the Army.

And pardon my forgetting to say, thank you for your service to our country, Sir.

jayinsat wrote:I have a Mossberg Maverick 88 Security with 18" barrel that i've owned for almost a year now. I've put over 100 rds of birdshot and 00 buck through it. I can tear it down and put it back in less than a minute. It's the only long gun I have ever owned and the only other experience was with a long gun was the M16 in basic training in the Army.

My question is this: I recently replaced the butt stock with a 6 position tactical stock, replaced the fore-end with one with rails and added the Blackhawk 2 point sling/shotshell holder. The sling attaches to the magazine tube cap and the butt stock near the recoil pad. How do I use the sling when slinging the shotgun over my body? I've slung it barrel down cross body and barrel up over one shoulder (like I used to do my M16). What is the proper tactical way to sling the shotgun on body. Neither way has been that comfortable, especially with the weight with all those shells. I haven't figured out rapid deployment yet either.

I do plan to take a home-defense shotgun course in the near future. Just looking for some tips for now.

Thanks.

1. Extra ammo in a Sidesaddle, not on the sling. It won't work either as a spare ammo carrier or as a sling. (Imagine trying to pluck spare rounds out of a swinging sling in the dark.)

2. If you're familiar with the Blue Force / Vickers Tactical type of quick adjust slings, they're about as good as you can get in a 2 point sling. I prefer a single point, so I put a GGG single point sling plate between the receiver and the replacement buttstock, and I'm set up the same way my rifle is.

3. While we're on the subject of butt stocks, I highly recommend that you ditch the adjustable stock and go with a fixed, shorty stock. I recently finished up teaching a shotgun instructor course to 30 instructors, all LE and military. One department had installed the useless Knoxx (now Blackhawk, I think) stock on their department's weapons. When I set up the short stoke / double feed stoppage clearance drill, the folks with the Knox pogo stick on the end of their 870's could not clear the double feed. Ditto with the adjustable stocks. If you need to hold down the action release and pull down hard on the fore end while slamming the butt stock as hard as you can on the deck, it's a no - go with the Knoxx stock and collapsible stocks.

3. Which brings me to the fore end. In my opinion, rails on a pump shotgun fore end are about as useful as a fly swatter in a house fire. Sooner or later, you'll have to manipulate that fore end like you mean it, if nothing else to clear out a user induced stoppage. At that point all those nice sharp edges will eat up your palm and now you have a pain stimulus and nice slippery blood to add to the perspiration as you're trying to get the weapon up and running again.

Everybody wants to turn the 12 gauge pump into a Colt M4. It was around long before the M4, and will be around long after the M4 goes away. Don't try to turn it into something it isn't, and you'll be O.K.

Just my $0.02.