Paladin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:30 pmI can tell you the big churches do have church security teams. The Catholic church is very organized. The training they do is very respectable. I'd say better than LEO. I've seen Mega Churches specifically train their teams to Level III armed security officer standards. They all see a need for such training and have done something about it.LSUTiger wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2024 4:10 pm A bit off topic. How do you convince your Church leaders to start a Church security team in the first place? What is the best way to approach my pastor about the idea? Currently at my Church there is usually only one Uniformed Police officer split between inside security and traffic detail.
I could run a Church security group but I think I'd rather get some outside source to help me convince the powers that be to start one. Jesus was rejected by his own people. I feel same way approaching this subject by myself.
I'm already a member of a trusted and established Church ministry that could easily be drawn from for members to form a security team. But I can hear them now, "Just trust in the Lord". I say the Lord works in mysterious ways. Be that mysterious way.
In America in the 1600's it was once REQUIRED to carry your gun to church. That was the law. No Joke.
GUN LAW HISTORY IN THE UNITED STATES AND SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS (PDF)In Virginia in the early 1600s, men were required to bring their firearms to church
for fear of Indian attacks.
Well, I am already an army of one, well of two if you count the lone officer who is not aware that there is at least one independent free agent in the crowd. But I can see the need for an official team if anything were to ever happen.
This is in the Catholic Church. I am worried that by bringing up the issue and that I somehow I draw suspicion to myself if they are opposed to the idea. No good deed goes unpunished as they say. As a gun owner who has filled out many 4473's and holds an Texas LTC I am already on the government's watch list. But the Church still thinks I am a swell guy, as for as I know.
In the past I brought up the need to have armed security for my children's church affiliated school with the principal after a scary situation took place. No one was hurt, no damage done, but an unauthorized and extremely suspicious person gained access to the school and subsequently fled the scene and was never caught.
I even outlined what was being done in other Texas ISD's with uniformed police and volunteers and offered to volunteer myself. They downplayed the whole thing (really it was they didn't want to spend the money on at least one uniformed police officer to be on duty during school hours) and then this principal lady treated me differently from then on, she could never look me in eyes the again and barely spoke to me. I can't tell if its from suspiciousness of me or her shame and embarrassment of knowingly leaving children vulnerable.
Then a second incident happened. Honestly I think it was a typical overreaction of something that occurred between 2 students having a conversation. But I again used this 2nd incident to re-iterate my concerns and offer solutions.
Finally this year they found the budget to have a full time officer on campus, which is great! But still insufficient. And my sincere attempts to secure the children did not go unnoticed as they were a source of contention. The next school my kids will transition to next year (one already has), another religious school, already has at least 3-4 armed police as security and a few security guards running around the campus. I see them every time I visit. But our Church is still largely unprotected.
Also, there are a couple of things I am not quite sure on like exactly how much autonomy the head Pastor of each Parish has from the Archdiocese. I was reminded during the Covid days that each Pastor had much discretion on how they wanted to run their Parish because 2 different Priest and 2 different Churches did things very differently. One a young Priest and one an old Priest. But for something like this does that still apply?
So here's the bureaucracy I see potentially:
1. Archdiocese buy in or push back.
2. Parish Pastor buy in or push back ( there is current unresolved issue of who will be the new head Pastor as the old guy just passed away. FYI, I also found out that the Pastor also has much power of what goes on in the affiliated school, so old guy dead my be a blessing in this regard. But who know who his permanent successor will be.)
3. Leadership of existing Church ministry buy in or push back or creation of a completely new Church ministry. (although I think the existing Church ministry in questions involvement would be a key selling point since membership to this group is already somewhat vetted and already is entrusted with access to things above and beyond others not to mention that there are enough men in this group are likely to be like minded and ready to accept and embrace the call to serve in this way, they already actively support many different causes.)
So I kind been down this road before. In any case I will continue to be the Lord's mysterious way and keep taking care of me and mine with the added security that common sense provides with "In Glock We Trust" and the rest will just have to rely solely on "Trust in Jesus". I am kind of in a wait and see what happens with the new guy before I approach anyone with the idea for a church security team. But if anyone has any real world experience to share in dealing with this especially a similar situation with the Catholic Church and its hierarchy it would be much appreciated.