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Well now we will never know.

Dave2 wrote:Ok, so not only did we refuse to send help to American citizens being murdered, but now we're vowing to arrest & prosecute some guy for doing nothing illegal?

I was previously under the impression that I couldn't think much less of Obama, but it turns out that I was wrong. Have we reached a point where the current administration in objectively and bi-partisanly anti-american instead of being merely unintelligent and incompetent?

It seems every other day I say the same thing......they couldn't be any worse.....then they prove me wrong, again.

May the fleas of a thousand camels infest the seat of this man's armchair......Our Marvelous president has just said on comedy central that the murder of a US ambassador is NOT OPTIMAL!

Me having a soda tonight for dinner instead of water is "not optimal", falling down the stairs and having to continue caring for four children is "not optimal." A US ambassador being killed is an OUTRAGE. He has to go, a president should not go on comedy central and joke around about our ambassador being killed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... Washington" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


sorry if this link is long I still have not gotten the hang of posting links here.

If we re-elect this guy everybody get you a piece of land with a deep well on it cause we are going the way of Greece, and if we are not very lucky the way of the Roman Empire.

Finders keepers.....the state department should do a better clean up. If a CNN reporter could get there so could they.

I really don't see the point of this nonsense over the film maker. Terrible horrible things are said about every religious figure in history. It really should get a shrug off. By rioting the Islamic people of those countries have given legitimacy to this mans claim. "I say you are bad bad bad, your leader was a murderous scoundrel" (I am paraphrasing the message of the movie) Response "WE HATE YOU, and we are going to KILL you the first chance we get." Yep that will show him!

rwg3 wrote:
So to the points you raised. Yes the crusades still get mentioned. Historical grievances play a role. In any event as long as it advancws the aims of the person raising the issue, they become fuel for the fire.

If the crusades are still a valid point then so is the Muslim invasion of Europe, and the balkans, and their behavior of them there....I assume that Muslims don't want that to be part of the conversation

rwg3 wrote: The Spanish Inquisition is an apt analogy precisely for the reason you cited. It is a very clear example of the Church exerting it's control over the lives of everyday people and controlling the government. It exerted virtually unchecked power and was manipulated to achieve the goals of the Church at the time. Sounds fairly similar to what's happening in the Muslim world.

That would be an apt analogy for say Iran or Egypt.....the Spanish inquisition was limited in its geographical area. It was mostly limited to Spain (hence its name) with some influence in France from time to time and a brief bit in England during the reign of Mary. In this instance we have a wide swath of geography being dominated by extremists--who seem to hate everything and want to murder everyone who believe something different than them. From Asia (pakistan) to Africa. So this is about more than a small group of individuals. This is a systematic problem.

rwg3 wrote: Your point on the KKK made my inquisitive, so I googled Christian philosphy of the KKK. I got lots of hits and number two was their Homepage. On it they define themselves as a white Christian organization. I didn't drill down any further into their stuff but it is an example of my first point. Only when the majority have denied the validity of the claim to the point that amost all recoginize the claim for it's reality, can we hope for change.

I wonder what is Christian about their organization...their "love" of their brother or their glory in the diversity of God's creation (obviously I am being sarcastic here). The KKK is largely powerless because the majority of Christians in this country see them as they are are and reject them. Thus they are mostly toothless. Now why is the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Queada not the same.....well....obviously if we follow the same path it is because at least a large portion of the populations in those lands do not reject them. There is the problem. There is why I am afraid the next world wide conflict will be over this and we had better get our ducks in a row.

Like all of us have said you may have one or two people here and there that go insane that claim to be Christians. People are people.

Really?....the crusades.....we are bringing up something that happened 600+ years ago and was at least in part a reaction to the Muslim Invasion of Europe and the Balkans.

The Spanish Inquisition....that was a horror show and again was much more political than religious in nature and was again minimum 500+ years ago.

The KKK....what Christian doctrine are they trying to advance? I grant that there may be misguided Christians within their ranks, but as far as I know they are a racial group not a religious group.

Beiruity, positing one quote the Koran does not negate what thousands of Muslim men and women are screaming at the top of their lungs. I don't want to make this about Islam....it is only about that marginally. You and I could go round and round posting verses from the Koran,the bible and we would end up here again just both of us more irritated. These people believe they are acting on their faith, whether or not they are duped and believing a distorted version of Islam, I don't know.

Additionally, while individual members of any and every religion can do terrible things and be flat out insane. When a Christian goes round the bend, and off the reservation (murdering tillerman /westboro crazies) Christians very quickly denounce then and do not offer excuses for what they have done. Even you have offered excuses for these people's ridiculous behavior (the British and the Wahhabis/ a slanderous film inciting them to murder--as if words are an excuse to murder).

On Islam proper. We don't discuss religions here as a matter of course. So I will only give my thoughts on the last ten years of Islam/western interaction. I am a generous person by nature, idealist, and even at 32 years old a bit naive. I have wanted to believe that as a whole Islam could be a peaceful religion. World events over the past few years, months, and days, are disabusing me of that hope. I still cling to the small hope that perhaps these idiots at the embassies are a vocal minority, and moderates are the rule not the exception. Time will tell on that one.

RPB wrote: someone asked him questions, probably in protective custody situation for a bit, I don't think any crime was committed and so it's my impression they didn't arrest him for exercising his rights. No one has the right to use sticks and stones to harm in response to words; that's escalation instead of being a peace maker.. Often it's the less intelligent who are unable to express themselves in a rational/logical manner who use physical means against words.
http://www.timesnews.net/article/905168 ... amic-movie" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LOS ANGELES (AP) — A southern California filmmaker linked to an anti-Islamic movie inflaming protests across the Middle East was interviewed by federal probation officers at a Los Angeles sheriff's station but was not arrested or detained, authorities said early Saturday.

See http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 06,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If I was not free to go I would consider myself under arrest. If the FEDS had not outted him he would not need protective custody. If I was taken in handcuffs to some police station you better believe I am shutting up until I have representation.

TAM thank you....you saved me some typing.

The only thing I want to add is that I am NOT pleased AT ALL that they have arrested this film maker. If he did actual crimes he would be under investigation by his local PD, not the FBI, it is a reprehensible thing that our first amendment, that my family and other families have bled and died for, is being put in the dung hill to pacify a group of terrorists. I am furious over this. I could hate with the highest of hates what he has said and I would still say he had a right to say it. America, the dream, the great experiment is dying bit by bit. I will not go into Dhimmitude. I reject that Islam is special above others and deserves special protection just because they get violent when their feelings get hurt. Punish the violence, that is far more acceptable than destroying the first amendment.

I hope this is not true, but one website is saying that the ambassador was assaulted in a manner that is not fit for children's eyes and ears to even know of before he was killed. The adults here will know what I am speaking of. I feel ill all over again. Is there any truth to this?

Dave2 wrote: First of all, yes, he is. They're his staff; he's ultimately responsible for what they do. I'd cheerfully forgive Obama, though, if the apology had been taken down in a reasonable time frame, but it was up for well over a day.

So I'm with Romney on this one.

I am with you. If the message had been removed immediately upon the discovery of it by the higher-ups then I would say "let it go..some unthinking low level worker got ahead of himself" However it stayed up for a whole day and a half and was reiterated, the consulate and the administration own this. Romney is free to comment as he sees fit.

Beiruty wrote:RottenApple,

We need not inflame the flames we need to find solutions. Dealing with extremists starts at schools with toddlers not Hiroshima-level threat. It takes time to raise generations who are clear from the ideology of destruction and Hijacking the True message of Islam.

Unfortunatly we don't have generations, we have to deal with the here and now. we can't build a wall around the Muslim communities and hope that they learn to be nice. In case you missed this lesson in grammar school, there is but one way to deal wih the bully that keeps stealing your lunch, with strength. Right now there may be only a few extremists doing this, but the majority of the rest stays silent. They by their silent affirmation are part of the problem as well.

Additionally I don't buy it, not by a long shot, that this was about a you tube movie that at the start of the protests had 4k views. Baloney, it was sept 11 and they hit us again. Why, because we are not Islamic and we live with a great amount of liberty. Because they don't like their state of affairs and the local leaders (often religious in nature) have decide America is to blame. Much like the Germans blaming the Jews after ww1 for their woes, the islamic communites in the middle east have bought it hook line and sinker. Sure there are individuals that don't like it, and don't agree, but on the whole there is no push back to these extremists from the moderates.

However let's say that it is about the movie....to suggest that a movie made in America 13 centuries after Muhommed died has some measurable injury to the leader is insanity. To suggest that a movie seen by only 4k people does some damage to a world religion is preposterous. Ther reactions of these dingbats hss done far greater damage to the image of Islam in this world than any movie could ever do. Now the movie has a megaphone, and because of the insane response of the protestors people, less sofisticated than you or I, might be more prone to think hmmmmm....maybe that movie has something to it.

I m sorry to say this, but of the communities are still crying over what happened 200 years ago, then perhaps there's something intrinsically wrong with the community philosophy. To those communities that are blaming the British I say get up, get yourself together, winthe argument, and if you must, win the war. It was not much over 200 years ago that we too were oppressed by the Brits, look where we are now.

How nice...the middle east is on fire....we have an ambassador murdered, and our president doesn't want to do his homework.



http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012 ... sy-Attacks" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;