TexasCHLforum.com

speedsix wrote:...a more likely outcome for a scenario like the one you purpose, is that the three of them call the cops and say: " This crazy white woman pulled a gun on us after yelling at us 'cause we accidentally dropped some trash...she said she'd shoot us if we didn't pick it up..."

...a lot of folks these days have no moral guidelines at all...say or do what they think will get them by...our being willing to "teach" doesn't suggest that "they" will have any willingness to learn...

This is what I would be worried about! Out and out liars. We practically need to carry around voice recorders just to cover our tails.


On the cows.....I love COWS! Served many different ways. But if it is for burgers I am going to Five Guys! Don't know if yall have them down there, but my family thinks they rock!

speedsix wrote: ...truly the thugs like those at McD's needed some parenting...but not from her....

Too little too late. Neighbor parenting works when the child is 7 and throws his Popsicle wrapper on the and is told by a neighbor "pick that up please and put it in the trash." Not so much when the little cupcakes grow up. Perhaps as Scooter Says pointedly picking it up might make a point to those with soft hearts that just weren't thinking. But these obviously were not the type to have soft hearts.


As a side note--this is why I avoid McDonalds, Burger King and Wendys. If I am forced to eat fast food by my schedule I go to Chick-fil-a. Nice staff, clean restaurant, fast and friendly service, have never met a lowlife there. Now don't tell the thugs this, but for a family of 6 the cost is the same for all three.

awwww..now the 1950's were not so long ago. That would be the same generation as my parents. My kids are being taught not to litter (it's rude and makes a mess!) and to speak respectfully and they are being raised in the 2010's I guess. It is not the generation, but the parents that make the difference.

Valor wrote:
The OP asked whether the victim would have been in the shoes of Zimmerman provided she "defended" herself using a pistol and killing the BG. In this case, probably so. It is challenging for the defense to argue you feared for your life when you did not have a problem initially confronting the eventual attackers. When you are concealed carrying, mind your business. Unless, true aggravated assaults/robberies are happening to you or in your presence.

Not saying "the common man" should be afraid, be wise.

Two people assaulting one person who is trapped in their car...no I don't think the defense would find that a challenge. Just because a person makes the (slightly foolish--but not illegal) statement of "thats not cool" does not mean they are ready to fight it out. They are commenting, perhaps not wisely, but certainly not illegally. And they do not lose their right to self defense because they talked with someone who then beat them up.


Speedsix--you keep writing about how you have to "deal with situations" because someone talks to a lowlife and they respond violently. You signed up to be a police officer. I would hazard a guess that you are going to have to "deal" with these people whether or not someone says "thats not cool" to them or not. If they attack on so slight a provocation as I would expect my four year old to be able to walk away from then the police (You) are going to have to "deal" with them sooner or later. One of these days someone is going to look at them wrong or ask "Can I help you?" and they are going to try and beat that persons' brains out. This is more of a case of person X was there when the two low lifes (really three) went nuts and so they are to blame

Is it wise to tell people "that is not cool"--no not really. Is it provocative to the point that you caused the beating and thus cannot legally defend yourself--absolutely not. I try to MYOB and teach my kids to do so as well (to a point--if someone is beating a child or a woman up and serious injuries are occurring I am going to have to stop it--I have to look in the mirror in the morning too!). What bothers me is not saying that this person is unwise (she was mildly silly in my view to think that this would have any impact on the people), but that she could not have legally defended herself because she had said something completely legal to them. This very much bothers me. It is part of the reason that people think they can beat someone up with no consequence. The attitude that you were there and these people did something criminal, so it is your fault. That I find really infuriating.

Valor wrote:
In my haste, I posted the same statue twice. Here is aggravated assault http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/22.02.00.html the primary differences between the two are the use of a deadly weapon and serious bodily injury. Make note, I said draw with the intent to discharge. The woman only exhibited bruises and a mild laceration on the finger. Are you willing to go before a grand jury and have your counsel argue that "serious" bodily injury resulted without the exhibition of a deadly weapon, yet you required no stitches, fracture bones, nor a concussion?

Biting can be lethal---I don't know if she has HIV or Hep B and is trying to infect me just out of spite. Punches to the face can be lethal--maybe they were not punching but slapping, I don't know. But if someone is punching my head I consider that aggravated assault. As a side note--some of my most serious injuries I have ever had would only be detectable outside a x-ray machine by swelling and bruising.

Valor wrote:My concern is that CHL and MPA begin "protecting" themselves with a gun against non-deadly force / aggravated assault threats arming (pun intended) antigun proponents with energy to attempt to repeal gun carrying rights.

Again--if they are willing to attack me through the window I don't know what is coming next. Nor should I have to wait to find out. That grape soda could just as easily been a brick or a rock. If a person is so deranged as to attack another person on so slight a provocation as "thats not cool" Then I have no idea what they are capable of.

Valor wrote:Although I am in agreement with speedsix about not approaching someone over littering and it is not my property, I do not feel she instigated the attack. Keep in mind, as a CHL holder; we are required to steer away from provocations. Yes, in today’s society, speaking up can be provocation. A good prosecutor may be able to argue that the CHL only approached the gang of litterers because she was armed and not a good Samaritan.

No, that would be a prosecutor with a vendetta, not "good" by any stretch of the mind. Additionally the woman did not "approach" anyone she spoke out her window. Anyone who thinks a person asks another person not to litter because they are hoping to shoot someone has a particular deranged mind. One punch can kill--and in this case it was two women that were standing that were beating up on a seated woman trapped in a car....not hard to argue disparity of force there.


I am not saying we need to shoot people for throwing soda (absolutely not!). However neither should we be required to take a beat down before fighting back. Punches to the face and bites are serious. People can and have lots fingers and hands from simple bites (bacterial infection).

speedsix wrote:...you could take the same pose about speeders...or shoplifters...and get maybe even more exciting results...there are people to report criminals to who are paid to deal with them...and that's our business...reporting them...mouthing off to a stranger in public is not...she provoked the beating...

The definition of provoked is becoming less and less and less. It used to mean if you went up to someone and called them dirty names and told them about their momma--that was provoking. Now saying "thats not cool" to people throwing trash on the ground is "provoking" and can justify a beating? REALLY?!? Cause if that is the case then teachers the world over provoke people when they tell kids to pick up their trash. If this continues we are going to end up at a place where simply being somewhere is considered "provoking" and justifies a beating.

So it is clear they were BITING her hard enough to break the skin! If they have Hepititus, HIV, etc etc that can be a deadly assault. You come over to my car and start to try and bite me you are at minimum getting a face full of pepper spray. The grape soda is assault, simple assault. But the biting and the punching in the face--that is aggravated assault. That can kill. Now it would be better to try and get her window up and get away and then call the cops, rather than shoot them, but if telling a person "it's not cool to litter" makes aggravated assault ok in TX, then that is not a good place to be.