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03Lightningrocks wrote:

jmra wrote:Using your logic I could say that if Martin hadn't been dealing drugs and gotten himself suspended from school he wouldnt have been in the neighborhood in the first place. So being a drug dealer resulted in his death.

Using your logic, if zimmerman had not been born in the first place, none of this would have happened. How about we all quit reaching so far and get back to reality? I am actually surprised so many of you think that CHL gives you Batman authority. Good luck with that.

Zimmerman creating the situation by butting in where he was not needed is logical... your logic is just rediculous at any level.

03Lightningrocks wrote:

bzo311 wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:I'm not ready to hang Zimmerman.... Heck....maybe he did us all a favor...I don't have any way of knowing.

The one and only firm position I have on this situation is that the average citizen is not well advised to play cop. Too much can go wrong and we may be causing a crime by trying to see if someone is about to commit a crime. If Zimmerman had been following me around... I would have assumed he was about to mug me... Or worse. This is a great example of why we as citizens should not try to play police officer.

It appears that Zimmerman has made a wrong choice here and it may cost him dearly. For what?.. He did not witness ANY crime being committed by the kid he was stalking.

I hear you, but you have to listen to what you are saying. To me it sounds like you're saying that we shouldn't take interest in other people's actions because that person could savagely attack us and force us to defend ourselves....

.. So if Zimmerman were following you, and then asked you "what are you doing here?" You would have hauled off and clocked him? I doubt it. I am sure that most of us would have gone with a verbal approach.

Taking interest in someone else's actions is not the same as intervening in someone else's actions. My response to zimmermans question would be less than polite. unfortunately, I might have clocked Zimmerman if I thought he was setting me up and getting to close. Isn't everyone on this forum always posting about staying in code yellow or something like that?

Zimmerman nor anyone else has the right to accost any of us, regardless of our physical look.

03Lightningrocks wrote:

mamabearCali wrote: Edit:
If you want to start following people around your neighborhood that is up to you. I don't have time for that nonsense.

mamabearCali wrote: Had it been me I would have followed in my car and watched. So is watching out for your neighbors looking for trouble now?

Which one is it?

matriculated wrote:
If you'll please peruse this thread and the other one on the same topic, you'll find plenty of people making a big deal of Martin's appearance, language, pot-smoking, and all the other things that make him a no-good thug (some people have actually used the word thug). In fact, one forum member was essentially spamming both threads with numerous consecutive posts on exactly that topic ( VMI). So I'm not baiting and switching anything, I'm describing what I see people engaging in: victim blaming.

matriculated wrote:

A-R wrote:She saying that holding CHLees to a higher standard just because they carry a gun is similar to saying a woman was "asking for it" (being raped) because she wore a sexy outfit. It's a logical fallacy to suggest someone is "asking for it" (whatever IT may be) simply because of what they choose to legally wear, carry, etc.

I addressed the rest of this post in my previous one, but what you say there doesn't sit right with me. I obviously didn't say that Zimmerman "asked for it" because he's a CHL. He purposefully went looking for trouble and found it. What I said was, as a CHL, he should have known better than to look for trouble. Isn't avoidance one of the first and most important principles of self-defense, and isn't self-defense the reason we carry? Zimmerman ignored that principle and the rest is history.

matriculated wrote:
Ahhh, excellent. Thank you for bringing that up. The problem is, you've got the actors in your analogy mixed up. I'll explain. But either way, let's say I go with the analogy as you see it: comparing Zimmerman's actions with a woman's choice of clothing is hardly...umm, analogous. Unless you really do think that if women choose to dress a certain way they're "asking for it," that doesn't make any sense.

Now here's the analogy as I see it.

Fairly often after a good looking woman wearing something less than a burka gets raped, there's a chorus of "Well look at how she's dressed" and "She asked for it" knuckle dragging-type of commentary from certain quarters of our society. Instead of blaming the rapist, they will blame the victim, because hey! Look at that short skirt, who could resist? She basically did that to her self. Who would wear something like that, after all, except for someone asking for it. What kind of character defect would make her put something like that on her body?

I see the same kind of victim blaming happening with Martin. I mean, did you see his tats and grill? And he smokes pot? And golly gee wilikers did you see the foul language the young man uses on Twitter? Who would do something like that but a no-good thug? Clearly the same character flaws that would make him do those things are responsible for him asking to be shot by going around attacking well-meaning neighborhood watchmen.

matriculated wrote:

mamabearCali wrote:

matriculated wrote:
One thing I've never heard of is someone looking for trouble and not finding any. It's hard enough avoiding trouble, but actively looking for it usually produces swift results. Zimmerman went looking and found some pretty quick.

Just as a general matter, I think that CHL's are supposed to be held to a higher standard. We have the ability to swiftly end someone's life attached to some section of our hip (usually), and knowing that we have this power should make us more cautious, not less. That concept clearly never sunk in with Zimmerman.

Someone else pointed this out before but it bears repeating. This is the same argument used to say "Well she was wearing a mini-skirt so she deserved to be assaulted." So what do you think, should we start charging women who attack their attackers with assault?

Huh? I honestly haven't got the first clue as to what you mean. Would you mind expounding?

matriculated wrote:
One thing I've never heard of is someone looking for trouble and not finding any. It's hard enough avoiding trouble, but actively looking for it usually produces swift results. Zimmerman went looking and found some pretty quick.

Just as a general matter, I think that CHL's are supposed to be held to a higher standard. We have the ability to swiftly end someone's life attached to some section of our hip (usually), and knowing that we have this power should make us more cautious, not less. That concept clearly never sunk in with Zimmerman.

matriculated wrote:
Zooming out for a moment to take a look at the forest, there seems to be general concensus that Zimmerman acted stupidly. Even many of his defenders say that he made a foolish decision getting out of the car, following Martin, etc. My understanding is that if you do something stupid and someone ends up dead as the final result, that's called manslaughter.

About Zimmerman: unfortunately for him, I think any semblance of a normal life going forward is probably impossible. Probably the best thing that could happen to him right now is to get indicted and convicted, spend a few years in the big house, get out early for good behavior, and hope that by then nobody will remember this incident. That way he might have a chance at a normal life. He's still young, only 28. If, however, he gets acquitted, adios normal life forever. People will know who he is, he will get recognized, and there are always people out there willing to do violence if they feel the justice system didn't do its job. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that's reality. He'll always have to look over his shoulder for as long as he's alive. He would become the OJ of central FL (and I'm not talking about the delicious FL orange juice).