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C-dub wrote:

warhorse10_9 wrote: For the record, I oppose this bill, that being said. Here is the actual text of the relevant section:

`(2) Except as provided in paragraph (3), any person who--

• (A) keeps a loaded firearm, or an unloaded firearm and ammunition for the firearm, any one of which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, within any premises that is under the custody or control of that person;
  
  (B) knows, or recklessly disregards the risk, that a child is capable of gaining access to the firearm; and
  
  (C)
  • (i) knows, or recklessly disregards the risk, that a child will use the firearm to cause death or serious bodily injury (as defined in section 1365 of this title) to the child or any other person; or
    
    (ii) knows, or recklessly disregards the risk, that possession of the firearm by the child is unlawful under Federal or State law,

if the child uses the firearm to cause death or serious bodily injury to the child or any other person, shall be imprisoned not more than 3 years, fined under this title, or both.


(3) Paragraph (2) shall not apply if--

• (A) at the time the child obtained access, the firearm was secured with a secure gun storage or safety device;
  
  (B) the person is a peace officer, a member of the Armed Forces, or a member of the National Guard, and the child obtains the firearm during, or incidental to, the performance of the official duties of the person in that capacity;
  
  (C) the child uses the firearm in a lawful act of self-defense or defense of 1 or more other persons; or
  
  (D) the person has no reasonable expectation, based on objective facts and circumstances, that a child is likely to be present on the premises on which the firearm is kept.

The law only requires that there is no reasonable expectation that a child will gain access to the firearm.

And the part I emboldened in red. I have no knowledge that my child or any other child that comes in our house will use a gun to cause death or serious bodily injury to someone.

Oh, I hear you. I would say that no one would know that and not want to do something to help their child. I think the bill is bull. I believe they would say that a person "recklessly disregarding the risk of a child doing those things."

I think this part of the bill is meant to hold parents responsible should their kids shoot someone which I agree with, but it is written so badly that it allows for abuse of the statutes by prosecutors.

C-dub wrote:I'm afraid I'm going to have to apologize up front here. I know she's mostly a nut job, but I'm not really seeing anything that horrible in here except the age stuff. Isn't some or most of it already illegal? I'm all eyes, please point out the really bad parts.

Aside from the fact that, as you said, the age stuff is bad, the bill is horribly written, using terms that are defined nowhere in the present code without bothering to even include the definitions. Examples of undefined terms are "semi-automatic assault weapon" and "large capacity ammunition feeding device."

The firearms education could be used to preach the fact that "guns are evil, go tell an adult if you see one. Don't touch they will make you want to kill"

Birdie wrote:This is the part that concerns me:

Prohibits keeping a loaded firearm or an unloaded firearm and ammunition within any premises knowing or recklessly disregarding the risk that a child: (1) is capable of gaining access to it, and (2) will use the firearm to cause death or serious bodily injury.

Could it be interpreted to mean that anyone with children can't have weapons in the house? Because in all honesty, if my kids were just a few years older, and they wanted to open a safe and load a gun, they could. I intend to teach them how.

For the record, I oppose this bill, that being said. Here is the actual text of the relevant section:

`(2) Except as provided in paragraph (3), any person who--

• (A) keeps a loaded firearm, or an unloaded firearm and ammunition for the firearm, any one of which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, within any premises that is under the custody or control of that person;
  
  (B) knows, or recklessly disregards the risk, that a child is capable of gaining access to the firearm; and
  
  (C)
  • (i) knows, or recklessly disregards the risk, that a child will use the firearm to cause death or serious bodily injury (as defined in section 1365 of this title) to the child or any other person; or
    
    (ii) knows, or recklessly disregards the risk, that possession of the firearm by the child is unlawful under Federal or State law,

if the child uses the firearm to cause death or serious bodily injury to the child or any other person, shall be imprisoned not more than 3 years, fined under this title, or both.


(3) Paragraph (2) shall not apply if--

• (A) at the time the child obtained access, the firearm was secured with a secure gun storage or safety device;
  
  (B) the person is a peace officer, a member of the Armed Forces, or a member of the National Guard, and the child obtains the firearm during, or incidental to, the performance of the official duties of the person in that capacity;
  
  (C) the child uses the firearm in a lawful act of self-defense or defense of 1 or more other persons; or
  
  (D) the person has no reasonable expectation, based on objective facts and circumstances, that a child is likely to be present on the premises on which the firearm is kept.

The law only requires that there is no reasonable expectation that a child will gain access to the firearm.