TexasCHLforum.com

...no, he meant that he would check the patrol car...instead, he left...

Texas Dan Mosby wrote:Is this post for real?

...kinda like the old folks used to say about puppy love...it's real to the puppy...if it'd happened to me, I'd be real sore, too...

BrianSW99 wrote:

speedsix wrote:

Skaven wrote:How, you ask, can I avoid an LEO loosing my CHL?

Tape it to your drivers license. Set both on a table about half inch apart, and run one strip of tape between the two so you can fold it back on each other. Face them so that you can fold the CHL behind the DL and then place it in a clear plastic sleeve so that if you are ever carded, the DL is facing forward, and conceals the CHL. Added bonus of when an LEO asks you for the DL you can't forget to give your CHL to him/her, and then the LEO can't drop it between the car seats or into the console without dropping the DL.

...great idea, except officers are trained to have you take your license out of whatever it's in, so that they can read it better, and so that noone can suggest that there was anything else in there that may come up missing...like money...very seldom will an officer accept an ID in any kind of case...

I think that was the point..they would be taped together when you remove them from the wallet or plastic sleeve. Don't some agencies swipe the magnetic strip on the license though? Seems like taping the two together would interfere with that, but I'm not sure how widespread the use of the mag stripe is.


...gotcha...I don't know about the scanner/mag stripe idea...I've never heard of an officer "losing" insurance papers, or a Driver's License...but today makes three accounts I've read of the CHL "disappearing" during a stop....maybe taping them together would help them be more visible...I'd be likely to ask him to give my CHL right back after looking at it, after these incidents...he doesn't need it to check me out or write a ticket...politely, of course...

WildBill wrote:

speedsix wrote:...I'll bet if you had 100 people read the OP, 95 of them wouldn't believe the CHL was legitimately lost...too many things don't add up...anything CAN be lost...

Regardless, the OP doesn't have much recourse other than to buy a replacement CHL.

...AFTER the battle and complaint to HQ, you may be right...I'd clearly state the reason for loss and forward it to DPS personnel, and the CHL division...might be less likely to lose another one that way...it doesn't need to be a trend...considering the hoops jumped through to obtain it, and the flawless way he followed the law when stopped, he has a right to be more than a little angry that his rights were so trampled on...it's not like it was a business card...I just hope there doesn't arise a need before he gets it replaced where he's not carrying.........

sugar land dave wrote:

speedsix wrote:...the officer did not say he'd mail it back to him...it shouldn't take any longer to find it, than to lose it, given the officer's stated "routine" of "always..."
...yep, sometimes old ex and retired cops disagree...with young and old ones...regardless of which century you were a cop in, cops will argue and disagree...that's life...where in this thread does anyone brand this LEO as a "bad cop?" being extremely critical of a man's behavior in one scenario deals with that scenario...not his whole life...don't blow it out of proportion ...and respect due is usually predicated on behavior...the OP gave respect at first, but didn't, according to the account, get much back...I've known and worked with enough officers for enough years to "see" the situation as described as not a good one...but nobody's bashing the cops or calling this a bad one...rather, we're saying that he behaved poorly in this account...and that reflects badly on his peers...and they have to live it down...
...one of my most-used expressions on the street was: "Now I'm NOT the last cop that you dealt with...back up and start this over!"...more often than not, it worked....
...of course a cop's going to ask about alcohol and drugs...no problem...but he kept trying to find a problem...without a reason...how many times does he need to be told that the man's not drinking, not smoking pot...not a word said about his reason for persisting in that line of questions...
...I don't know of an occupation where there is so much criticism...comes with the territory...the attitude and behavior of one becomes part of the "image" of what a "cop" is to the person who's experienced it...any man who wears a badge had better be able to take criticism...from others who do and those who don't...it's as sure as sunrise...
...let this scenario be replayed in a retail store, for instance, and there would be noone standing up for the clerk's either carelessness, or lack of concern, or both...

...edited 'cause I got interrupted by folks coming in...

Thank you for making your reasoning more clear to me. Though I usually find myself agreeing with you, I guess this is one thread where I just won't be able to see eye to eye with you. I do thank you for the response.

...my goal isn't to get folks to agree with me, but to state clearly my opinion...I've earned the right to it, and gained considerable insight on both sides of the badge...there's a lot more to be considered than most citizens ever know...having walked a few miles in their shoes, and having been a training officer, my viewpoints often don't get agreement...my motivation is the end result, whether the path is pleasant or not...

Skaven wrote:How, you ask, can I avoid an LEO loosing my CHL?

Tape it to your drivers license. Set both on a table about half inch apart, and run one strip of tape between the two so you can fold it back on each other. Face them so that you can fold the CHL behind the DL and then place it in a clear plastic sleeve so that if you are ever carded, the DL is facing forward, and conceals the CHL. Added bonus of when an LEO asks you for the DL you can't forget to give your CHL to him/her, and then the LEO can't drop it between the car seats or into the console without dropping the DL.

...great idea, except officers are trained to have you take your license out of whatever it's in, so that they can read it better, and so that noone can suggest that there was anything else in there that may come up missing...like money...very seldom will an officer accept an ID in any kind of case...

...I'll bet if you had 100 people read the OP, 95 of them wouldn't believe the CHL was legitimately lost...too many things don't add up...anything CAN be lost...

handog wrote:Consider your self lucky.

The recession may be claiming a new victim: the 5-10-mph "cushion" police and state troopers across the USA have routinely given motorists exceeding the speed limit.

As cities and states scramble to fill budget gaps with revenue from traffic citations, "not only are the (speeding) tolerances much lower, but the frequency of a warning instead of a ticket is way down," says James Baxter, president of the National Motorists Association.

"Most people, if they're stopped now, are getting a ticket even if it's only a minor violation of a few miles per hour," Baxter says. He cites anecdotal evidence of drivers being pulled over at slower speeds.

The officer had a right to pull you over and give you a warning. According to the PD standard operating procedure the violator must be going at least five over the limit to be ticketed. But, that is not always the case due to increased pressure to generate revenue.

As far as the subtle harassment by pulling you out of the car and confiscating your CHL... welcome to the ever growing police state.

...it's always been customary to "give" about 5-10 MPH...but the officer can write a ticket for 66 in a 65 if he chooses...the speed in this case was the reason for the stop...the warning was reasonable...the rest of it...not so much...and some of us will resist "the ever growing police state" at every chance...surrender is not an option...

sugar land dave wrote:I still think that things can get swallowed in, under, and around car seats. At least that has been my experience in many decades of owning cars. Are LEOs impervious to such?

Knowing that a question had arisen about the return of CHL, did the LEO search? How long? How long do you think he should search? He did say that he would mail the license back if found.

Where in this thread is any proof that this is a bad LEO? Is an officer not allowed to ask about alcohol or drugs, particularly if they may have an existing problem with such within a county?

Is it possible that everyone who reads this post will filter it through their political, religious, entertainment, and a myriad of other beliefs? I confess that I filter it through my belief that you do not throw an LEO under the bus for without proof that this was not an unfortunate accidental loss. I also believe you do not name names publicly so quickly even though you may be miffed.

After 911, Homeland Security was formed and LEOs were tasked with many new tools and responsibilities. I expect retired LEOs might disagree with newer on-the-job LEOs. That should not lessen the respect they are due nor should it not be expected and factored into individual beliefs.

First post or 4000th post I will always point out my opinion and am not afraid to do so or to hear your responses. I do ask that you have a reasonable defense of your position since I will back mine. If you are addressing my post I ask that you quote what you are specifically replying to so that I may not misunderstand you.

I think it is a bummer that a person can be stopped for going 68 in a 65 zone, but it happens. I don't think anything in the account given raises this to the point of calling this LEO a bad cop. I would need much more proof before I would go there.

...the officer did not say he'd mail it back to him...it shouldn't take any longer to find it, than to lose it, given the officer's stated "routine" of "always..."
...yep, sometimes old ex and retired cops disagree...with young and old ones...regardless of which century you were a cop in, cops will argue and disagree...that's life...where in this thread does anyone brand this LEO as a "bad cop?" being extremely critical of a man's behavior in one scenario deals with that scenario...not his whole life...don't blow it out of proportion ...and respect due is usually predicated on behavior...the OP gave respect at first, but didn't, according to the account, get much back...I've known and worked with enough officers for enough years to "see" the situation as described as not a good one...but nobody's bashing the cops or calling this a bad one...rather, we're saying that he behaved poorly in this account...and that reflects badly on his peers...and they have to live it down...
...one of my most-used expressions on the street was: "Now I'm NOT the last cop that you dealt with...back up and start this over!"...more often than not, it worked....
...of course a cop's going to ask about alcohol and drugs...no problem...but he kept trying to find a problem...without a reason...how many times does he need to be told that the man's not drinking, not smoking pot...not a word said about his reason for persisting in that line of questions...
...I don't know of an occupation where there is so much criticism...comes with the territory...the attitude and behavior of one becomes part of the "image" of what a "cop" is to the person who's experienced it...any man who wears a badge had better be able to take criticism...from others who do and those who don't...it's as sure as sunrise...
...let this scenario be replayed in a retail store, for instance, and there would be noone standing up for the clerk's either carelessness, or lack of concern, or both...

...edited 'cause I got interrupted by folks coming in...

...the 3 miles over the limit got just what it deserved, if anything...a warning...driving UNDER the limit gets attention quickly at that time of the morning, too...the officer's mind seemed to be focused on other things than the speed...like pot...

...when an item like a DL or CHL is "lost" within a 10-minute encounter, the responsible thing would have been to stay there and FIND it...

...a coupla things from reviewing your post...you don't get out with your hands up unless they tell you to...and you should never stand between your car and his...I personally know a rookie officer who did that and a citizen lady who was looking at his pretty red lights veered over and hit the patrol car...smashing both his legs between cars and putting him into the prone position for months...officers and citizens have been killed doing that...

...maybe it is a bit premature that you post his name and all...but this was wrong...the stuff that gives good LEOs a bad name to live down...and that IS unfair...to all the good ones out there doing it right...

...p.s...get a haircut!!!

...you're describing a State Trooper with his region, district, and area...county lines mean nothing to Troopers, so though his office might have been in Dallas, no problem with being in Ellis County...he can work into another county if he wants...
...sounds like a very bad case of mess-wit-ya!!! if it happened just as you say, I'd be in the District office talking to his supervisor with every detail of the story Monday morning...and folks wonder why citizens are starting to record police encounters...you might have to replace your CHL, but it'd be after the loooooong discussion for me...might even make the news...no excuse for the attitude he displayed...just an old fat ex-training officer's opinion...

...personally, I would have called DPS and requested a supervisor, if he wouldn't call for one...leaning on folks like that isn't right, nor should it become habit...