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...friend of mine and her husband were in a Target...fella was lustin' after her leather purse...she was lookin' at clothes...fella made a desperate grab, took off with the purse...got about 2 steps and landed on the floor with his arm up behind him like the handle on a li'l red wagon...where he stayed till the law arrived and "rescued" him...hubby was a Navy Seal in his other life...din't forget nuttin'...sometimes the good guys still win...

...this thread keeps going in the same circle...from someone who would become involved, to someone who thinks he's stupid to do so, to someone who reminds us we're not cops, to someone who calls us Batman or ninja....to someone who feels his CHL is for the benefit of himself and his own family only...about 6 different positions...and who's right? We're talking about a hypothetical situation where 6 different guys may react six different ways...and all be right...the decision has to be based on each person's background, training, mindset, value system...knowledge of what's happening... and who's to say who's wrong or right??? We talk down on the guy who'd step up to stop evil...unless it's our wife or daughter he's rescued...then he's a hero...we cheer for the guy who steps in...till we find out he misunderstood and is headed to prison for shooting the wrong guy...it would behoove us to respect each other's positions...and realize that the best thing to do may be a mixture of everyone's answers...or none of them...I pray for wisdom every day, should something happen in my presence...twice in the many years since I was a cop, something very bad happened...and I was given the wisdom to make the right decision...and I'm humbly grateful...who...of themselves, has that???

...most dangerous call out there ,OldGringo...I've peeled him off her and cuffed him...had her sign the charges...and she's got her busted lip all cleaned up and makeup on, waiting for us at the station to bond him out...go figure...many's the woman who's seen past the pain to realize her paycheck was going to jail...and jumped on the cop's back to save him....

...if so, he'd'a been smarter to get it BEFORE she went in to shop

...thanks, OCW...you hurt him worse than most do...testifying that, point by point, he committed the elements of the crime...a good, factual witness is gold...and more rare...he's to be thanking God he didn't pull his popgun on that occasion...
...at a Kroger near me, there have been several cases where the lady was held up at gunpoint for her purse, car, groceries...it's gettin' bad out there...

...thanks for the answer to my question, and Amen to your perspective on the rest...most heroes didn't want to be...most wannabees aren't ...there's a fine line and takes some careful walking...I appreciate that there're men who'll step up and help a "lonely" officer...without trying to take over...I know personally two officers who are alive because a common-sensible citizen stepped in...one with a Mace...one with a shotgun...loooooooong before CHLs...

...that's all I found, too...and it seems to require that it is taken FROM the person,(or corpse or grave) meaning off of the person...as opposed to being near the person (i.e. in the shopping cart)... "from the person of another" seems to say it must be in their grasp or ON them...which would likely put them in more jeapordy or fear than just stealing it from their shopping cart...
...my question goes back to the OP and does the situation justify display of deadly force...if it is a misdemeanor...I don't think so...if it IS a state jail felony, maybe so, though it's not listed among crimes where deadly force is justified...and it's definitely not a robbery(which IS listed) because it was in the shopping cart...

...Texas theft laws are more detailed and complicated than La. laws, which are the ones I'm familiar with...

...true...but I'm asking if the theft has to be from the person's person to be a state jail felony, or does theft from their desk, shopping cart, yard, or car count...none of which own the property ...I can't find a definition of "theft from a person"...so far...

"3. General theft – Taking an item that belongs to someone else by any means when you do not have permission. Examples of this include taking a woman’s purse from her shopping cart when her back is turned, stealing copper from a construction site, or taking $20 from the cash register at work."



...found this on a lawyer's website...but is it true??? oughta be explained in the text of the law ...what is "from a person" and what is what this lawyer calls "general theft"...with the example of snatching a purse from a shopping cart as opposed to off her shoulder...

...the purse was grabbed out of a shopping cart while she was loading groceries into the car...I can see it being theft from person if she was pushing the cart...could a good lawyer beat the state jail felony??? you gotta KNOW if she'd just bought groceries the money left in her purse isn't likely to be felony amount...

Oldgringo wrote:

speedsix wrote:

WildBill wrote:

speedsix wrote:...that's great...but why do you feel that you need to announce to those of us involved a lively discussion that this thread is "out of hand" in your opinion? if you're tired of it ...why not just move on? I just met you on another thread that had 11 pages and had many tangents also...no complaint when you posted there...THAT'S my point...live and let live...

At the time I posted, that was my opinion. Sometimes threads stagnant and do not move forward with new thoughts. If you have new thoughts or do not agree, please feel free to post additional comments.

...we have reached an impasse, I believe...maybe Charles who IS a lawyer, will find the time to settle it...I think we really need to know what's right...ain't no mosquitoes in this thread...it's been real lively...

Charles can't settle it, he can only argue your version of it...it will be settled by 12 "tried and true" of your peers...at your expense...in your family and in your neighborhood...it probably won't be fun...

...not MY peers...not MY expense...not My family and not MY neighborhood...if you'd read my posts...you'd know I'm the one dead set against DOING it...so it won't be MY problem...fun or not...

...this part of the section says it: "The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter" I read that to say that if the USE of DEADLY FORCE is not justified by Chapter 9, then neither is the THREAT of DEADLY FORCE...any lower level of force which Chapter 9 justifies doesn't kick in 9.04, only DEADLY force being justified...

...a commonsense example...Chapter 9:31 and 32 deal with when force is justified...clearly defining crimes in which deadly force is justifiable...then we read 9:04 and think that it means ANY level of force authorized by law gives us the right to threaten with a gun??? Doesn't make sense...we're talking in context of deadly force being legal in several situations when several criteria are met...where do we make the leap that we can pull a gun or hold someone at gunpoint if we couldn't use deadly force to stop the crime in question...in the Op's story...you're going to shoot/kill the purse snatcher? of course not...then since that force is NOT justifiable...why would the threatening of it be allowed???


I'm tired...we're going in circles...sincerely trying to find the truth...I have nothing else to post on this, until someone can clear up that point...does 9.04 apply if ANY LEVEL of force is justified by Chapter 9, or only if DEADLY force is justified by Chapter 9...there's the question...

WildBill wrote:

speedsix wrote:...that's great...but why do you feel that you need to announce to those of us involved a lively discussion that this thread is "out of hand" in your opinion? if you're tired of it ...why not just move on? I just met you on another thread that had 11 pages and had many tangents also...no complaint when you posted there...THAT'S my point...live and let live...

At the time I posted, that was my opinion. Sometimes threads stagnant and do not move forward with new thoughts. If you have new thoughts or do not agree, please feel free to post additional comments.

...we have reached an impasse, I believe...maybe Charles who IS a lawyer, will find the time to settle it...I think we really need to know what's right...ain't no mosquitoes in this thread...it's been real lively...

...I am not a lawyer, too...but I believe that 9.04 says the same thing as 46.035 (h) says....and that's what we're arguing about...I believe that if the force justified in Chapter 9 is NOT deadly force...then 9.04 doesn't apply...maybe Charles will be willing to settle it...I really want to know...I think it's important to all of us in making that decision about what to do...

...that's great...but why do you feel that you need to announce to those of us involved a lively discussion that this thread is "out of hand" in your opinion? if you're tired of it ...why not just move on? I just met you on another thread that had 11 pages and had many tangents also...no complaint when you posted there...THAT'S my point...live and let live...

"...What would you have done if you would have been able to do something about it?..." was the original question...prudent and not is a matter of opinion...it quickly turned into several subdivisions of why would you, should you, why shouldn't you, etc...all pertinent to giving the OP our opinions and reasons for and against...and what is legal to do is a very informative part of that...our arguments are to get at what's really right to do and not...not at all out of hand, nor even off topic...