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cyphertext wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote: I would concur with both of you.....
The only complication is whether there's paperwork from the auction seller with the OP's name on it that causes the FFL to balk. If the "friend" is the source of the funds for the purchase and the friend files the 4473 as the transferee, I don't see how that would be illegal. The OP never takes possession and never has to file a 4473 for the gun.

If I walk in to a LGS with my friend and pay for a handgun, can my friend file the 4473 and take possession?
Does it matter whether he plans to pay me back when we get home?
Seems to me this is perfectly legal.

I am not a lawyer. Just my opinion.

That's where I have the issue... paperwork from auction has one name on it and another person wants to do the 4473. As the FFL, I have no idea who is who and should not complete the transfer.

No, If you pay for the handgun at the LGS, you must be the one doing the paperwork. Again, it looks like a straw sale since you are paying but the friend is doing the paperwork. As the FFL, I have no way of knowing that the friend is going to pay you back, or why you are doing this... From what I can see you are paying for the gun but someone else is doing the paperwork. I'm going to err on the side of caution and assume that you are not doing the paperwork because you can not pass the background check.

That makes sense... Thanks.

ScottDLS wrote:

apostate wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:

apostate wrote:If I take possession of a firearm, and a credit card company pays the seller, and I later reimburse the credit card company, I'm still the actual purchaser. I think.

Logic has no place in this discussion.

Seriously, now. Unless the friend who has already promised to repay the OP is the person who files the original 4473, I believe (my opinion here) that it would be considered a straw purchase. This despite Scalias dissent.

To be clear, I'm saying I don't see what law is broken if the friend is the one who picks up the gun, completes the 4473, and keeps the gun. If the OP doesn't do a 4473, how can he be lying on a 4473? If the friend does the 4473 and keeps the gun, how can he be lying on a 4473?

You are correct. This is the right way to do it. The auction site, payment, and notation on the auction slip are irrelevant. The auction FFL transfers the gun to the local FFL. Who paid and what credit card etc. etc. are irrelevant. What is relevant is that the person that receives the transfer from the local FFL is the end user of the gun. If a few days later he decides to sell it fine. But when he picks it up he intends to use it himself.

I would concur with both of you.....
The only complication is whether there's paperwork from the auction seller with the OP's name on it that causes the FFL to balk. If the "friend" is the source of the funds for the purchase and the friend files the 4473 as the transferee, I don't see how that would be illegal. The OP never takes possession and never has to file a 4473 for the gun.

If I walk in to a LGS with my friend and pay for a handgun, can my friend file the 4473 and take possession?
Does it matter whether he plans to pay me back when we get home?
Seems to me this is perfectly legal.

I am not a lawyer. Just my opinion.

apostate wrote:If I take possession of a firearm, and a credit card company pays the seller, and I later reimburse the credit card company, I'm still the actual purchaser. I think.

Logic has no place in this discussion.

Seriously, now. Unless the friend who has already promised to repay the OP is the person who files the original 4473, I believe (my opinion here) that it would be considered a straw purchase. This despite Scalias dissent.

apostate wrote:IANAL and I'm no longer FFL but I don't see any legal issue if the friend does the paperwork, takes possession, and keeps the gun. It seems he is the actual purchaser, regardless of cash flows between striker55, the friend, the GunBroker seller, and the FFL transferring the firearm to the friend.

I am not a lawyer. this is just my OPINION, not legal advice.

I agree with apostate.

Gunbroker got paid by the OP, but the OP is using funds that he knows will be repaid by the friend, since that was arranged in advance. The friend is the "purchaser" and should be the person to fill out the 4473 at the FFL.

If I was the OP, I would contact the FFL and ask them how they would like to handle this. Seems there are 2 choices.
1. Friend picks up the gun and the 4473 is in friends name since he is actual purchaser. or
2. FFL refuses the incoming transfer and requests the corrected paperwork from the Gunbroker Seller reflecting the actual purchaser.

I don't know how the nuances of the online auction account affect this decision... I would rely on the FFL doing the paperwork to guide me.

One thing I would absolutely NOT do is pick up the gun myself, fill out the 4473 and state that I am the purchaser and then hand the gun to my friend as a gift, unless there was actually no money ever transferred from friend to OP. Stated otherwise... Unless the OP decided to fix this by making it an actual gift.

Just my OPINION.