TexasCHLforum.com

TexasCajun wrote:

casp625 wrote:

TexasCajun wrote:

casp625 wrote:So you're saying the school does not own or lease the school vehicle and thus cannot prohibit carrying in a school vehicle?

No. I'm addressing whether or not being a part of the school activity prohibits a person from carrying.

So you're saying a school teacher could legally carry on a school field trip at, say a museum, because the school doesn't control the museum property?

Essentially, yes. Legally a teacher could carry on a field trip because the school administrators don't control the property where the field trip is taking place. But the teacher would have to take his/her private vehicle to the field trip location in order to avoid running afoul of the section that prohibits carry on passenger transport vehicles (read buses). And while it wouldn't be a legal issue, the teacher may run into employee-employer issues in doing so. But a parent volunteering would certainly be within their rights to carry as a field-trip chaperon - provided they stay off of the buses.

I think you are incorrect in your interpretation. 46.03 seems VERY clear to me and what Charles said in the linked post does not appear to be applicable to the situation described by the OP.

Being in the same premises by happenstance is VERY different from intentionally, knowingly being there and actively participating in the event.

I'm not going to argue it further. Maybe Charles will be along to clarify.

TexasCajun wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:

TexasCajun wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:Not legal advice, just my opinion.

A "school sponsored activity" does not have to include children.
What you describe is, IMO, a "school sponsored activity".

also... PC seems clear about school vehicles.

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
........
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

Emphasis mine.

School sponsored activity is irrelevant to this discussion. As Charles has outlined in one of the earlier TFC podcasts, including the written authorization phrase in the statute limits the scope of "school sponsored activities" to only those grounds that are part of the school campus or property. A principle can't authorize the carrying of a handgun on property that the school doesn't own or control. Otherwise, you'd have to leave McDonald's when the high school football team shows up if you are carrying.

To address the OP's initial question - refer to school/district policy. If they allow concealed carry in district vehicles or while on district business, then you'd be ok to carry. If policy forbids it, you could be disciplined or fired for carrying. But you wouldn't run afoul of state law.

Subtle much?

If you volunteer to be a parent supervisor on a class field trip, are you allowed to carry?
No.

Why?
Because it's a school sponsored event and you are a participant.

In this case the OP is similarly making a trip that is sponsored by the school. Just because there are not any kids coming along doesn't mean it's not a school sponsored activity. And... in addition.... school vehicles are EXPRESSLY noted in 46.03. You're welcome to believe otherwise. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice, just my opinion. Worth even less than you paid for it.

Being a participant in a school sponsored activity does not prohibit carry in and of itself. If you volunteer to chaperon a field trip and drive yourself to the field trip location, you wouldn't be prohibited from carrying. Again, it has to do with what authority the school administrators have/don't have with respect to property that is not owned or leased by the school district.

Here's how Charles explains this point much better than I can:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=82361&p=1052074&hil ... l#p1052074

I think your link was incomplete (got truncated somehow)... Is this it?
http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=83940

I don't see where Charles posted in that thread, maybe you intended this one? it was linked in that first thread.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=82361&p=1052074&hil ... l#p1052074

I believe (don't want to put words in Chas mouth) that what he was addressing in that second link was a situation where I am at the FTW zoo with my gun and a class trip comes in. I am NOT part of the trip in any way. I just happen to be there with my own kids enjoying the day. I believe this is VERY different from being a chaperone, whether you take your own car or not.

Looking back at the first link I posted here, the following language from PC 46.03

(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted,

The way I read that is that if you KNOWINGLY agree to chaperone a field trip and you INTENTIONALLY show up and participate at that school sponsored activity, regardless of how you were transported there, you have committed a felony. Knowingly and intentionally.

So, yes... being a participant in a school sponsored activity, knowingly and intentionally, DOES prohibit CC.

Again. I am not a lawyer. This is just my opinion, not legal advice.

[Edited for clarity]

TexasCajun wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:Not legal advice, just my opinion.

A "school sponsored activity" does not have to include children.
What you describe is, IMO, a "school sponsored activity".

also... PC seems clear about school vehicles.

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
........
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

Emphasis mine.

School sponsored activity is irrelevant to this discussion. As Charles has outlined in one of the earlier TFC podcasts, including the written authorization phrase in the statute limits the scope of "school sponsored activities" to only those grounds that are part of the school campus or property. A principle can't authorize the carrying of a handgun on property that the school doesn't own or control. Otherwise, you'd have to leave McDonald's when the high school football team shows up if you are carrying.

To address the OP's initial question - refer to school/district policy. If they allow concealed carry in district vehicles or while on district business, then you'd be ok to carry. If policy forbids it, you could be disciplined or fired for carrying. But you wouldn't run afoul of state law.

Subtle much?

If you volunteer to be a parent supervisor on a class field trip, are you allowed to carry?
No.

Why?
Because it's a school sponsored event and you are a participant.

In this case the OP is similarly making a trip that is sponsored by the school. Just because there are not any kids coming along doesn't mean it's not a school sponsored activity. And... in addition.... school vehicles are EXPRESSLY noted in 46.03. You're welcome to believe otherwise. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice, just my opinion. Worth even less than you paid for it.

Not legal advice, just my opinion.

A "school sponsored activity" does not have to include children.
What you describe is, IMO, a "school sponsored activity".

also... PC seems clear about school vehicles.

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
........
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

Emphasis mine.