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Jumping Frog wrote:Bottom line, just because an armed person is now running away does not mean we can safely conclude they no longer pose an immediate threat.

Thanks very much for providing those references. Good stuff.

jbarn wrote:It does not mean to just shoot armed fleeing suspects as a matter of course.
......
I maintain there is no justification for Joe Citizen for shooting a person fleeing without property based only on the premise of what the suspect "might" do.

Nobody (certainly not me) is suggesting this is an easy decision to be made as a matter of course. I was intending to provide a counter argument to what appeared to be a rush to say "any sign of fleeing = definitely no shoot".

Here's what it comes down to for me....Certainty and risk.
How certain am I that the perp is fleeing and will not turn and fire?
Do I have the ability to mitigate risk by achieving (not just seeking, but reaching) cover immediately (immediately defined as the time it would take for the perp to change his mind, turn and fire)?

In such a situation, I'm asking myself the question...
Can I avoid shooting and not wind up with MY (or a loved ones) face in this photo frame?

Oldgringo wrote:Yep, what jbarn said: if they are backing away is one thing, if they are running 'for their life' is another thing altogether. You really don't want to shoot anybody...if you can get out of it. It will definitely be a life changing experience, in more ways than one.

Let me be clear.... I would never shoot a perp who was no longer a threat to my (and loved ones) physical safety.
The dilemma comes in knowing whether he's actually fleeing, and whether he'll keep fleeing.

That said, I firmly believe that the level of danger presented by a gun-toting perp in close proximity, someone who has already attempted to break in to my house (OP), should not be so quickly dismissed just because they've turned their back on me and started to step away. Proximity to me (and my loved ones), offenses committed and most importantly, the opportunity for me (and loved ones) to gain cover out of harms way will determine the best course of action.

Specifically, if I'm standing in my front yard after an attempted armed robbery and the perp is 2 feet away with his back to me, my course of action might very well differ from an encounter with that same armed perp creating distance from the other side of my locked door. Standing in that field and choosing not to shoot leaves me at the mercy of the perp. Must I wait for him to turn and shoot when, if he chooses to do so, I am clearly in mortal danger?

I think it's a huge mistake to pre-determine an immediate change from shoot to no-shoot until the immediate physical danger has clearly passed. I can shoot fairly well out to 25 yards, why would I assume any differently for the perp? That mistake might cost me more than money.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:

Tic Tac wrote:A threat is a threat even if they're moving. However, Texas does not generally authorize deadly force to stop a criminal who is fleeing after their crime, even for heinous crimes.

How do I know they're fleeing and not just taking cover before they turn and fire?

That would depend on the facts of the case. In this hypothetical you have chased them out of your house and they are running away from you on your property.

I hear you... Just thinking out loud.

This case was in NY. The sheeple must not fight back or they will face the wrath of the majority.

One of the many reasons I don't live there.

Tic Tac wrote:A threat is a threat even if they're moving. However, Texas does not generally authorize deadly force to stop a criminal who is fleeing after their crime, even for heinous crimes.

How do I know they're fleeing and not just taking cover before they turn and fire?

ETA:
Am I expected to be a mind reader?

BTW, if something was stolen PC 9.42 gives explicit justification.

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property;