Search found 9 matches

by RoyGBiv
Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:09 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...
Replies: 77
Views: 13791

Re: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...

When I read this...
" the airline will place a declaration tag inside the checked baggage containing the firearm. This notice alerts Transportation Security Officers (TSOs) to the presence of the firearm if they have to open the bag to inspect it. "

The only way the tag can alert the TSA agent to the presence of a firearm is if the tag is NOT inside the locked gun case. Inside the TSA accessible bag, outside the TSA-inaccessible case. If this is the intended purpose of the tag, it's simply impossible for the tag to serve this purpose if it's locked inside a case for which the agent does not have a key.

And..... This statement is self-contradictory....
" The declaration tag is required to be placed inside the checked baggage containing the firearm, not in the outside bag, the firearm container may be separated from the other bag, and the declaration tag must stay with the firearm"

The way I read this (I can certainly see where it can be read otherwise), the baggage I am checking ("the checked baggage containing the firearm") is the bag with the destination tag on it... the OUTER bag. But if the TSA expects the tag to stay with the gun should the gun "be separated from the other bag", then the tag must go inside the locked case, or be affixed to the outside of the locked case in such a way that it's not easily separated. Also, if the gun case becomes separated from the outer case, the gun case will not have any identifying or destination information on it so it would be "lost"... I put my business card inside the gun case and tether the gun case to the structure of the bag with a cable lock to minimize the chance of the gun case becoming separated from the "checked bag".

So..... Clearly the TSA has their head inserted in their posterior on this issue. :mrgreen:
Excaliber is spot-on in advising to follow the directions you're given at the time you're checking in.

Image
by RoyGBiv
Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:16 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...
Replies: 77
Views: 13791

Re: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...

bronco78 wrote: If you travel with a fire arm in a container inside a container (like I choose to)
Then the declaration is placed with the firearm, inside the only he has access to locked box , which is placed in the outside container (suitcase) locked with a TSA or non TSA lock.
Interesting.... I can 100% believe that you're information is correct Bronco... but.. I've flown with a checked handgun a half-dozen times or so ... DFW, FLL, RDU, CVG (on a FL license, although the airport is in KY my destination was in OH)... and have always had the signed card inside the soft bag, outside the locked gun case (always on top of the gun case).

It's entirely possible I'm just doing it wrong and it's not a big enough deal for anyone at the airport to correct me. I would THINK that the TSA inspector that hand-checks the soft bag would have said something if the card had to be inside the locked case, but, never. I'll have to ask specifically next time.

Come to think of it.... I've never been asked to open the locked gun case. Maybe that's why I've not ever put the card inside. I never contemplated opening the case inside the airport if I'm not specifically asked to do so. I always assumed the TSA inspector was looking at the x-ray to confirm that the gun was not loaded.

Maybe I just have an "honest face".. :mrgreen:

:headscratch
by RoyGBiv
Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:21 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...
Replies: 77
Views: 13791

Re: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...

To my knowledge, Bronco is correct.
A TSA lock on the outside of the bag allows TSA to gain entry should they deem it necessary. They can/will cut off a non-TSA lock if they cannot find you to open a case they want to inspect. A non-TSA lock on the inner gun case prevents (in theory) anyone from opening the gun case except you.

The one thing that still causes me to scratch my head a bit is.... Where does the signed card go?

In my experience, the "Checked Firearms" signed card always has been placed inside my luggage, but outside the locked gun case. I always assumed that this was in case the TSA opened the luggage (TSA lock) and found a locked case (non-TSA lock) inside. The card outside the case was proof that the locked case was already "checked" and they )TSA) had no reason to delay the luggage for the locked inner gun case.

But.... I've read here in this thread and other places that some of you have had the signed card placed inside the locked gun case. This would seem counterproductive to me. What good would the signed card be inside the locked case for which only you had the key?

Anyone have a definitive answer on this?
by RoyGBiv
Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:53 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...
Replies: 77
Views: 13791

Re: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...

TexasTransplant wrote:
RoyGBiv wrote:I believe you need to have a TSA lock on the outside of your bag. I have always had one, so I'm not sure what happens if you do not.

Are you saying that you have a locked container inside your regular luggage, then you lock the luggage with a TSA-approved lock?
Yes... Exactly
(Sorry for the slow reply.... I hadn't check this thread in a while..)

I use this as my gun case inside my luggage. It has it's own, NON-TSA lock.
I hold the key and stay with the bag until it is completely screened by TSA and cleared to be put on the aircraft.
http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/store ... =329211197" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

After TSA has checked my unlocked luggage, I give them a TSA lock to add on the outside of my luggage.
The TSA screener has always been happy to put the TSA lock on for me, since you cannot touch your bag after it's been screened.

IIRC, if you have a lock on the outside it MUST be TSA compliant or they have the right to cut it off if they need to check the contents.
Once they remove the TSA lock form the outside of your luggage and find the non-TSA lock on your gun case, you'd better hope they also find the orange tag in your luggage, outside the gun case, that tells the TSA screener that the contents of the locked case they cannot open were already checked.
by RoyGBiv
Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:40 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...
Replies: 77
Views: 13791

Re: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...

Having just returned last night from my third round trip with a checked handgun, perhaps the following observations/thoughts would be helpful to others..

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer... this is just my observation and opinion, not legal advice.

I've found that the TSA folks tend to know what to do, but the ticket agents don't always know the proper procedure. Here's what I do and how I manage the process. First bit of advice..... DON'T assume the person at check in knows the proper process, but, be nice about giving advice to them...

1. Packing your luggage.
Choose a good hard case (I use a nano vault) with a lock. Key lock or combination, either is ok as long as the case is "difficult" to pry open from any side and locks securely. As a bonus, the nano comes with a cable lock that I wrap around the inside metal bar in my wheeled luggage. This will not prevent someone from stealing your luggage, but they will have to take the whole thing, not just the gun case.

Use a strong medium-to-heavy tie wrap and "disable" the weapon. Try to imagine how the gun will appear on x-ray, and tie-wrap it in a way that might be more easily seen on X-ray. This serves two purposes, actually.... 1. The TSA screener will be less likely to ask you to open the gun case if they can "see" it's disabled and, more importantly, IMHO, if you are checking in at an airport that prohibits firearms on its property (there's a big "NO FIREARMS" sign at RDU, for example, and this sign has force of law), having the weapon "disabled" is, IMO, more likely to help you avoid issues with local LE should you be pulled over for a traffic violation on airport property.

Pack it all up in your luggage before you leave for the airport.

2. Checking In....
The ticket agents I've met with ranged from "Done it a million times" to "obviously scared"... Here's my procedure... First, in a clear but not-loud voice say "I have an unloaded firearm to declare". The ticket agent "should" 1. make a call to TSA and advise them you are heading over to the TSA checkpoint (more on this later), 2. Give you a bright orange card to sign and date (card says "Unloaded Firearm") 3. Put the normal luggage stickers on your bag. and 4. Place the signed orange card inside your bag, but NOT inside your locked gun case.

I am not certain whether the ticket agent will ask you to open the case and verify that the weapon is unloaded. In my case, I have never had the ticket agent ask me to open the gun case. It seems from reading the airline regs (AA and DL), that the ticket agent should be verifying that the weapon is unloaded...... I do not ask them about it if they do not ask me about it, I just move along.

Yesterday at RDU, the ticket agent sent me on my way without the orange card. I said "I think I need to fill out the orange card", and the agent said "Oh Yes.. Thanks.".. I filled out the card and she handed it back to me. On the way over to see TSA, I put the card in my luggage on top of my gun case. On other occasions, the ticket agent always put the card in my bag.

3. TSA Screening...
Next step is TSA screening. You will be sent over (in my case I always had to go over to a special area for TSA screening of my bag, I hear in some places the TSA agent will come over to the ticket counter.... I have not seen this yet) to a special TSA screening area. In DFW, it's usually just outside the normal screening area. In RDU yesterday, they sent me to the "oversized bag check" station where I was met by TSA. The ticket agent will tell you where to go. If they don't tell you, ask them....

The TSA agent will (every time for me) ask you if you have the orange card in your luggage. Yesterday, the agent asked me if it was inside my gun case and I said "No, it's in my bag but not in the gun case" and he said "Good, that's where it's supposed to be."

The TSA agent will put on some fresh gloves, grab a new swatch of clean fabric and swab your luggage everywhere, inside and outside. Be prepared for wrinkly clothes when you reach your destination. Then they'll check the swatch in the chemical detection machine. Sometimes they'll do a separate swabbing of your gun case and check it again. Honestly, I'm surprised every time my gun case comes up clean. I'm certain there's enough alarms at this step that there's some routine way to clear the bag, but, I can't tell you what happens if you set off the alarm. Consider wiping down your gun case with windex (non ammonia version) and a clean cloth before you load a clean weapon inside.

During the TSA inspection and afterward, you cannot touch your luggage. If the agent needs to see inside the gun case for some reason, be prepared to hand them the key. Once they clear the bag for loading, they will close it up and send it on its way. I believe you need to have a TSA lock on the outside of your bag. I have always had one, so I'm not sure what happens if you do not. In some cases, the TSA agent has unlocked the lock using a TSA key and installed it onto my bag. In other cases I handed them an open lock and they put it on, closed it and spun the dials.

4. Picking up your bag.
Other than the TSA lock, there is nothing special on the outside of your bag to ID it as containing a firearm. The bag should come out on the same luggage carousel as all the other luggage.

I suggest waiting until after you pick up your rental car to reload and re-arm. Perhaps a restroom stall would be ok, just make sure the airport you're in doesn't prohibit weapons. As I know it, DFW allows CC outside the TSA checkpoints.... Be sure to know the laws for the areas you'll be traveling in.

That's it... :tiphat:
by RoyGBiv
Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:56 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...
Replies: 77
Views: 13791

Re: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...

Hmmmm....

The orange tag has always (5 times) been placed on the outside of the case.
My luggage has always come out on the carousel with all the other luggage.

AA and Delta flights.

:headscratch
by RoyGBiv
Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:39 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...
Replies: 77
Views: 13791

Re: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...

I was surprised that my swabs did not set off the detector.
I had just fired and cleaned my gun the day before and had been handling the case with Hoppes still lingering on my hands..
by RoyGBiv
Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:07 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...
Replies: 77
Views: 13791

Re: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...

Posting from the airport at DFW. First time checking in with Delta. (AA previously)

Declared at the ticket counter, filled out the card.
Sent me over to the TSA screener nearby (outside) the security checkpoint, behind a private screen.
TSA opened the luggage, did a hand inspection, wiped everything with a cloth and ran it through the chemical detector, but did not ask me to unlock/open the case.

All was well... waved on through to regular security.

Extra time... about 4 minutes.
by RoyGBiv
Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:30 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...
Replies: 77
Views: 13791

Re: For those who have declared firearms at the airport...

TSA: Traveling with Special Items
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/ ... _1666.shtm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Return to “For those who have declared firearms at the airport...”