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Maybe I'm mixing you up with someone else. Could have sworn it was you on this site. I've thought that since the day I got back from the class. LOL

BTW, I don't know if you remember me or not, but we were in a class with DPS together several years ago. Don't recall if it was my initial Instructor course or my first renewal.

I edited my last post with some clarification... but you'd already responded before I hit submit. LOL

SewTexas wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:22 am I'm so glad she's home safe.
yeh, now the hard work starts, he's not going to be happy. I'd suggest supervised visits, since he's broken trust.

Per advice of multiple LEO's and a couple of lawyers... there will be no visitation until there are orders in place.
But the ball is rolling on that. Nobody is trying to keep him from seeing her. Quite the opposite. My... I'm going to start saying Wife as it's easier to type and I don't have to keep right clicking to get the little swoosh thing... My wife wants her to see her dad. She loves her dad. None of this would have happened had he not pulled this crap. If he wanted to keep her a couple of more days, or even a week... She would have been very accommodating. It wasn't about the few extra days. It was about not bringing her back when agreed upon and the insecurity of knowing when/if she would be back. Once we can ensure he can't play narcissistic bully anymore without having a recourse to go get her, things can go back to him getting her when he would like.

As an aside... I'm a believer, but wouldn't classify myself as a religious man. I don't believe that God interferes with our day to day lives. I think he's more of a big picture guy. But, Two months ago I picked up a side contract that is very lucrative. I've been putting up quite a bit of that into savings. Part of it went into an investment account. And very little of it went into checking. It just happened that there was just the right amount for the retainer sitting in savings when I needed to pay the retainer today. Money that was over and above the normal monthly budget. Money that I had earmarked for other purposes, but nothing that can't be replaced before those needs are here. And even if it can't, those needs aren't nearly as important as this. So I won't stand up and say God put this here knowing it would be needed. But I will most definitely be thankful in my conversation tonight with him for the fact that contract fell into my lap two months ago, letting us provide for our family.

I used Jeff for my divorce. He's good. He wasn't cheap though.
She's using Ashley Butler. It'll be in Kendal County.
Here in Kendal I'd have gone with a different lawyer, one from my lodge Jonathan Cluck. But she felt that since Ashley was familiar with the case, and shook her ex up in the temp order stuff she wanted to go with her. Either way I just wanted to make sure she went to the finish line this time for completed final orders. So we paid the retainer today and she's faxing the contract back in the morning.

She's safely home tonight. Very tense exchange, so I'm very glad SAPD provided a civil standby. Now it's time to let the lawyers do their thing.

srothstein wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:13 pm Sorry you had that experience. A lot of officers don't like to get involved in custody cases because they are always messy. Sometimes, the officers are human and, generally being male, they put themselves in the fathers position and see how biased the system is towards mothers. I believe the system is moving towards being more fair but it certainly does have that reputation. The officers are wrong and forget their job when they do this, but they are humans.

There is no reason at all not to take a report though. It takes about five minutes to get what everyone said written down and then kick it up the chain of command to see what the supervisors say.

I am glad you thought of this before I mentioned it though. Always use the law when you can. I think most of the forum members here have learned to do what you did, research the law and try to go the legal route. I hope things work out well for you.

I have the advantage of age and experience going for me. I'm 48, I've been married more than once and been through custody battles before. I happened to be the primary custody parent in my situation. Which made it even harder because dealing with the police then, they almost always started at a point of the kid should be with the mom. I would have to go through hoops to show them the docs and get PA's involved when she would do the same thing we had go on this week. So I also know what the judges are looking for and at when you go before them. I know what not to do, and what you have to do to keep from letting them get too much rope. If you let them go too far, yes the judge will reprimand them, but you might not see your kid for months. My fiancé (who will have the title of wife after tomorrow) is younger. Quite a bit younger... And this is her first and only child. She doesn't know what to expect, and is very scared because of the unknown. She's dealt with years of a narcissist bully threatening her with taking her kid from her and taking her to court. Anybody who's on the outside can see that court is the last thing this guy wants. He knows he'll lose, will lose money, and will have to pay the normal CS amount. But it has been a great control tool in his arsenal against her.

For the past two years that we've been together, He has been a caring dad. So I can't fault him on any of that. He doesn't pay what he should. But money hasn't been an issue for us, and my Fiancé doesn't want money to be something that prevents her daughter from having a relationship with her dad. She allows him any time he's asked for. She would have been fine with him keeping her a few more days, had he asked. But he told her that he was keeping her till Thursday since she started back to work and wouldn't be off till Thursday. And he would be picking her up on Friday. She told him no, bring her back at the original time. And here we are.

He says he's bringing her back this evening at 6. She told him we'd be waiting at the PD. He refuses that and says he'll meet at the Movie theater. So we'll request an officer to be there to witness the exchange.

As a matter of fact, one of the officers had an attitude about us wanting a report filed so this was all evidence that this could be used without being he said she said hearsay.

When we asked for the report number he said there would be no report. We said we need a report. He said it would be put into a call for service. My fiancé asked if the lawyers would be able to get a copy. He finally said they'd attach it all to the prior day's report. That they weren't going through the trouble of opening another report since there was one from the prior day. We explained we didn't care how they did it as long as everything that was said and done was documented to be able to present in court.

It's not a stupid question. Very valid. There were temporary orders issued 2 years ago. She is the custodial parent. They were never married. The daughter was a surprise from a short relationship of two 23 year old's who didn't use good judgement. But she's a huge blessing. Smart, beautiful, with a smile that could melt dry ice. My fiancé hates confrontation, and is very much in the mindset of doing whatever is the best for her daughter. She knows having her father in her life is a positive thing. So she's bent over backwards to make sure he visits. She didn't set up a final hearing, so there were no permanent orders issued. The temp orders have a date they expired on, which I'm assuming is the date that should have been for the final hearing.

My understanding from talking to the lawyers today is that despite the expiration date, they would be looked at as effective since there had been no orders issued after. The police, were walking both sides of it... Saying that the orders don't expire. But even though they don't expire, it didn't matter that it wasn't his time, because he told them they had an agreement for him to keep her longer. She showed the text exchange that proved that was a lie. But they said without orders from a judge, they had their hands tied.

We did discuss interference of rights, right after they said it wasn't kidnap. I argued it was, with out the orders. They cited the orders. So I said it was interference of rights. They argued that the orders weren't up to date... They just didn't want to get involved.

I've gotten a callback from an Attorney. Looks like it's going to be a 5-10K retainer. But things are pretty well laid out in our favor. So we're getting a little more at ease.

puma guy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:39 pm Can't offer legal help, but I will offer up a prayer for he safe return. Will law enforcement help in a situation such as this?

We've had three calls out for LEO. Each time they come out (to first his dad's and twice to his mom's where he's run and hidden with her.) and each time they say the same thing. They can't force him to return her without an order from a judge. We made the calls fully expecting that result, but wanted everything documented so there's no room for him to lie when we do get before a judge. She's got all the communications through text of what he's said, and now will have police reports documenting what he's doing. At this point we're going to have to get a Writ of Return I believe. At least that's my understanding from my research for the past few days. He told the police he was bringing her back Tuesday. At this point we can't believe him. And with Thanksgiving coming up... His mom has already asked to be able to take her to AZ for thanksgiving to visit family. They know that after him pulling this, there's no way she'll allow it. So our fear is that if he doesn't bring her back tomorrow he'll run to AZ and not come back. He's not working so really has no ties here other than his daughter and parents.

Are there any Lawyers who practice family law on here that wouldn't mind a couple of quick questions?

My fiancé is dealing with a situation where her daughter wasn't returned to her this weekend. We have calls into her attorney, but she's out of the office today and it would do a lot to sooth my fiancé's nerves right now to know about the process of filing for a Writ of Return. Like how long it normally takes to get it before the judge and signed, and how long it normally takes to get the enforcement done. With the holiday's speeding up on us, she's afraid he's going to run to AZ where he has family. He's unemployed at the moment so it's not like much ties him here.