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Return to “Dangerous shooters at the range”
- Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:06 am
- Forum: Never Again!!
- Topic: Dangerous shooters at the range
- Replies: 49
- Views: 12045
Re: Dangerous shooters at the range
Holy cow, wow! I only wish we had 4 RSO's during our busy times. Certainly does seem doable with the ratio you described, but still dicey. As you said, the lack of follow through from the same RO each time contributed to it. Makes me wonder what their protocol is when multiple RO's are on the line at once.
- Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:33 pm
- Forum: Never Again!!
- Topic: Dangerous shooters at the range
- Replies: 49
- Views: 12045
Re: Dangerous shooters at the range
I've RSO'ed at an indoor range that seems to have had similar circumstances to what you just described, So I'd like to kick in my .2 cents regarding this type of behavior.
The range I worked at had 16 lanes - on the weekends it was a MADHOUSE. We regularly had at least 315 shooters come through per day on weekends (normally saturdays, though). Which might not sound like a lot, but it surely is. It resulted in waits of up to 2 hours (no exaggerations - though few people waited that long) for a lane. This was a pay by the hour place. Generally the Saturday crowd would see a median 2 shooters per lane, as most people would just share given the wait time and capacity of the range itself. Just to give an idea of how the range staff was numbered: 2 dedicated to the range desk. The rest of the store had 4 or 5 depending on how things were going that day. Of the 2 dedicated to the range desk, their job was to run the range desk (check people in, cash them out, handle rentals, give safety briefings, etc.) and handle the range itself. Handling the range consisted of RSO'ing for 1 hour shifts multiple times a day during a 12 hour shift, and immediately repairing any damage done to a lane that put it out of commission. For us, RSO'ing was defined as:
- Safety. The obvious making sure no unsafe activity is occurring, and enforcing our rules thusly.
- Providing assistance to patrons whom needed it ("I can't reach my target to change it out", "This is jammed and I can't get it undone!", "Do you have an allen wrench this size?"). I loved helping people with that stuff. More so, we would provide general assistance to those who were having issues with the basics of shooting if, and only if, range safety permitted it; IE: if it was slow and we could afford to divert our attention to it with no ill affect to our other duties. I particularly loved this part. Helping someone like that made me all warm and fuzzy inside.
- Keeping the range clean. This included replacing targets after someone left a lane, spraying and wiping down the lane with a special cleaner, and sweeping up brass. Also cleaning up blood - too many people cut themselves, I' d grown convinced.
- Repairing the lanes when they went down. Sometimes this meant policing the shooters as they stood behind the firing line empty handed during a cease fire (to make sure your buddies didn't get shot). Sometimes this meant donning a suit and respirator and running (literally) down range to fix whatever issue was going on, with another person, as most repairs could not be done by a single person. So it generally took three people to carry out a range repair properly (keep this in mind).
When you have 8 people shooting on different lanes? Not so much of a big deal. When the range is packed to capacity with at least two shooters on each of the 16 lanes? It got downright impossible to keep up with. You'd have to walk back and forth every 20-ish seconds in order to make sure everyone wasn't doing something unsafe or dumb (at the least). And if you stopped sweeping for more than a minute? The brass would build up on the floor to the point of it being unsafe (brass + concrete floor = WHEE!). Factor in the folks leaving their lane (mostly trashed I might add - brass all over the place, shot off target clips/rods, etc) and having to clean up after them before the next person(s) are sent out to that lane by the range desk staff? Madness I say. We won't even talk about how having to manage all of the above works when you have to assist with a repair.
So when it's busy, the RSO simply can't be everywhere at once. I tried my absolute hardest to watch EVERYONE like an eagle (even those who appeared to know what they were doing, because you never know) while carrying out all the above tasks, and trust me it was by far the most stressful job I could ever imagine having. The idea that if you stop paying attention for a split second, some genius could shoot himself or someone else was ever present. Needless to say by the time your hour was up you were more than happy to get off the range and man a relatively safe counter, even though it was still very stressful (people generally get very irate when they have to wait, and they weren't shy about taking it out on the staff). I never had to toss someone out, thankfully. I like to think that it was because I was reactive and stern enough to stop an issue before it developed and take care of it. The truth is that I was just lucky though. Why? There are simply some circumstances yin which you cannot prevent injury to someone. Example: Someone intent on harming themselves can still do so even if you're only a matter of feet away and watching them. Unless they were exhibiting some type of behavior that would tip us off, of course. We simply can't react fast enough and cover the ground to the person in time to affect a different outcome in extreme circumstances like that, so it's a real possibility. Again, watching people like a hawk is the only real defense for this. I had to deal with folks who insisted on handling their firearms when a cease fire was in effect while staff were downrange for repairs. There was an elderly gentleman who insisted that pointing his tube fed .22 rifle at his grandsons noggin' while reloading it wasn't the least bit unsafe (Oh boy, that one was tough), and the folks who just generally muzzle everyone in the lanes next to them. Usually a very stern talking to straightened them up quickly. Thankfully most folks seemed to realize that the fact that their recklessness could possibly kill their friends/loved ones (and even the range staff) would be "very bad", and they ceased quickly and straightened up and flew right. There were the very alpha and unpleasant guys who would push you just because they couldn't admit to their infringement of safety. I have too many horror stories about that. Even those types would back off when you got really stern with them though, thankfully.
I suppose the point I'm trying to make is this: If you attend a busy indoor range, the RSO more than likely is trying his absolute hardest to keep everyone safe. So if you see something bad, potentially bad, or even remotely questionable, intervene directly. By all means, PLEASE pull the RSO aside after the immediate safety issue has been resolved, but don't be afraid to be the RSO at the moment. We truly, truly appreciate it. We don't want to see folks hurt at all, and seeing someone who is safety conscious help not just us but everyone who is on the range out, is superbly appreciated and we'll show our appreciation in any way we can. The most prudent solution to all of the above issues was to have at least two, if not three, RSO's on duty when it was busy like that (which never was even acknowledged as a solution). On occasion if it was dead enough inside the store, one of us would go help out the RSO, though moments like that were sadly few and far between. Certain management also had to not be there for that, as they would become irate over it because they would view it as us slacking off.
. He was out of touch of what the conditions actually were on the range, unfortunately.
This is of course probably the exception to the rule. I'm sure that there were many patrons of that range who had a wildly different opinion of how we operated. Still though, the experience I gained from working at a range has forever changed my opinion of shooting ranges and how they operate.
As a final talking point, the owners, while nice people, were not willing to spend money where they didn't absolutely have to, IE: if it meant it kept keeping the business afloat. They may have been able to afford to pay us better, and more importantly, they could have afforded to upgrade certain pieces of equipment on the range that would have contributed to the customer experience becoming better. They didn't want to spend the cash though. Which is guess is "OK" if you own a car wash. It's less "OK" when your business can result in someone being killed, however.
That is of course probably the exception to the rule, though. I've certainly been to ranges where the staff didn't care at all (Younger or older alike), and I never stepped foot in them again. As always, if it looks unsafe, get the heck out of dodge but not before telling the pertinent folks about it. Indoor ranges are certainly, ::drum roll:: hit or miss. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to visit them if they had a negative experience.
To all of you who intervene while on the range and become the RSO: I give you a hearty thanks.
The range I worked at had 16 lanes - on the weekends it was a MADHOUSE. We regularly had at least 315 shooters come through per day on weekends (normally saturdays, though). Which might not sound like a lot, but it surely is. It resulted in waits of up to 2 hours (no exaggerations - though few people waited that long) for a lane. This was a pay by the hour place. Generally the Saturday crowd would see a median 2 shooters per lane, as most people would just share given the wait time and capacity of the range itself. Just to give an idea of how the range staff was numbered: 2 dedicated to the range desk. The rest of the store had 4 or 5 depending on how things were going that day. Of the 2 dedicated to the range desk, their job was to run the range desk (check people in, cash them out, handle rentals, give safety briefings, etc.) and handle the range itself. Handling the range consisted of RSO'ing for 1 hour shifts multiple times a day during a 12 hour shift, and immediately repairing any damage done to a lane that put it out of commission. For us, RSO'ing was defined as:
- Safety. The obvious making sure no unsafe activity is occurring, and enforcing our rules thusly.
- Providing assistance to patrons whom needed it ("I can't reach my target to change it out", "This is jammed and I can't get it undone!", "Do you have an allen wrench this size?"). I loved helping people with that stuff. More so, we would provide general assistance to those who were having issues with the basics of shooting if, and only if, range safety permitted it; IE: if it was slow and we could afford to divert our attention to it with no ill affect to our other duties. I particularly loved this part. Helping someone like that made me all warm and fuzzy inside.
- Keeping the range clean. This included replacing targets after someone left a lane, spraying and wiping down the lane with a special cleaner, and sweeping up brass. Also cleaning up blood - too many people cut themselves, I' d grown convinced.
- Repairing the lanes when they went down. Sometimes this meant policing the shooters as they stood behind the firing line empty handed during a cease fire (to make sure your buddies didn't get shot). Sometimes this meant donning a suit and respirator and running (literally) down range to fix whatever issue was going on, with another person, as most repairs could not be done by a single person. So it generally took three people to carry out a range repair properly (keep this in mind).
When you have 8 people shooting on different lanes? Not so much of a big deal. When the range is packed to capacity with at least two shooters on each of the 16 lanes? It got downright impossible to keep up with. You'd have to walk back and forth every 20-ish seconds in order to make sure everyone wasn't doing something unsafe or dumb (at the least). And if you stopped sweeping for more than a minute? The brass would build up on the floor to the point of it being unsafe (brass + concrete floor = WHEE!). Factor in the folks leaving their lane (mostly trashed I might add - brass all over the place, shot off target clips/rods, etc) and having to clean up after them before the next person(s) are sent out to that lane by the range desk staff? Madness I say. We won't even talk about how having to manage all of the above works when you have to assist with a repair.
So when it's busy, the RSO simply can't be everywhere at once. I tried my absolute hardest to watch EVERYONE like an eagle (even those who appeared to know what they were doing, because you never know) while carrying out all the above tasks, and trust me it was by far the most stressful job I could ever imagine having. The idea that if you stop paying attention for a split second, some genius could shoot himself or someone else was ever present. Needless to say by the time your hour was up you were more than happy to get off the range and man a relatively safe counter, even though it was still very stressful (people generally get very irate when they have to wait, and they weren't shy about taking it out on the staff). I never had to toss someone out, thankfully. I like to think that it was because I was reactive and stern enough to stop an issue before it developed and take care of it. The truth is that I was just lucky though. Why? There are simply some circumstances yin which you cannot prevent injury to someone. Example: Someone intent on harming themselves can still do so even if you're only a matter of feet away and watching them. Unless they were exhibiting some type of behavior that would tip us off, of course. We simply can't react fast enough and cover the ground to the person in time to affect a different outcome in extreme circumstances like that, so it's a real possibility. Again, watching people like a hawk is the only real defense for this. I had to deal with folks who insisted on handling their firearms when a cease fire was in effect while staff were downrange for repairs. There was an elderly gentleman who insisted that pointing his tube fed .22 rifle at his grandsons noggin' while reloading it wasn't the least bit unsafe (Oh boy, that one was tough), and the folks who just generally muzzle everyone in the lanes next to them. Usually a very stern talking to straightened them up quickly. Thankfully most folks seemed to realize that the fact that their recklessness could possibly kill their friends/loved ones (and even the range staff) would be "very bad", and they ceased quickly and straightened up and flew right. There were the very alpha and unpleasant guys who would push you just because they couldn't admit to their infringement of safety. I have too many horror stories about that. Even those types would back off when you got really stern with them though, thankfully.
I suppose the point I'm trying to make is this: If you attend a busy indoor range, the RSO more than likely is trying his absolute hardest to keep everyone safe. So if you see something bad, potentially bad, or even remotely questionable, intervene directly. By all means, PLEASE pull the RSO aside after the immediate safety issue has been resolved, but don't be afraid to be the RSO at the moment. We truly, truly appreciate it. We don't want to see folks hurt at all, and seeing someone who is safety conscious help not just us but everyone who is on the range out, is superbly appreciated and we'll show our appreciation in any way we can. The most prudent solution to all of the above issues was to have at least two, if not three, RSO's on duty when it was busy like that (which never was even acknowledged as a solution). On occasion if it was dead enough inside the store, one of us would go help out the RSO, though moments like that were sadly few and far between. Certain management also had to not be there for that, as they would become irate over it because they would view it as us slacking off.
It's true, a lot of RSO's are young. To be fair and honest, the oldest RSO we had was in his early 30's. The youngest? 20. I was 27 (and college educated) at the time. And you're spot on about the pay - I'll just say that a fast food worker was paid better that majority of us were. We had a cantankerous GM, who would nary utter a word of encouragement to the range staff, that once said after a particularly rough and long day: "We all could make more money working at McDonalds, but we chose to work here. Why? Because we love this, and wouldn't trade more money for it". For me that was spot on. I could have made much more money working a much safer desk job behind a computer. In fact, I took a $10/hr loss in wages from my previous desk job in order to work there because it was in effect a dream job for me. I was subjected to possible lead poisoning, scrubbing toilets and urinals, vacuuming and mopping, and being shot for a very small wage. I loved it at the end of every day though. It's not for everyone, and most folks thought I was crazy for it. So while many of the staff may seem young - and the fact that the pay isn't great are certainly contributors to a high turn over rate - it certainly didn't equate to us not working as hard because we weren't being paid a lot. I can say that every member of my shift felt the same exact way, too. There were of course a boatload of perks that we got from working there that didn't really make up for the low pay, but we were VERY thankful for. We worked hard and went home proud of the work we did at the end of the day. Laziness wasn't tolerated, and not because of the management, but because we all knew what was at risk if we didn't care about carrying out our jobs to anything less that 100%. Except perhaps for the GM who just stood around in the climate controlled shop all dayEEllis wrote:I was at a big indoor range and was struck by how young the RO's were. While some kids can do just fine it strikes me that when they are all or mostly kids then it's because it doesn't pay much which is hardly conducive to quality work. It also says something about the importance of money over other factors to the business. Of course the small ranges I go to don't normally have any RO's but the counter guys who keep half an eye thru the glass so......
. He was out of touch of what the conditions actually were on the range, unfortunately. This is of course probably the exception to the rule. I'm sure that there were many patrons of that range who had a wildly different opinion of how we operated. Still though, the experience I gained from working at a range has forever changed my opinion of shooting ranges and how they operate.
As a final talking point, the owners, while nice people, were not willing to spend money where they didn't absolutely have to, IE: if it meant it kept keeping the business afloat. They may have been able to afford to pay us better, and more importantly, they could have afforded to upgrade certain pieces of equipment on the range that would have contributed to the customer experience becoming better. They didn't want to spend the cash though. Which is guess is "OK" if you own a car wash. It's less "OK" when your business can result in someone being killed, however.
That is of course probably the exception to the rule, though. I've certainly been to ranges where the staff didn't care at all (Younger or older alike), and I never stepped foot in them again. As always, if it looks unsafe, get the heck out of dodge but not before telling the pertinent folks about it. Indoor ranges are certainly, ::drum roll:: hit or miss. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to visit them if they had a negative experience.
To all of you who intervene while on the range and become the RSO: I give you a hearty thanks.