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mr1337 wrote:Masaad Ayoob has some good advice.

{Jumping Frog: Below are my personal notes that I took while watching an episode on "Personal Defense TV" a 7 or 8 years ago, summarizing Massad Ayoob's 5 critical points to remember immediately following a shooting. I believe these are within TOS, because they are my personal notes -- this is not cut and pasted from a copyrighted article.} Anything in blue is my commentary, anything in black is Massad Ayoob.

Before we get into the five points, I always worry that the police are called for a "man with a gun". I am the man with the gun. That is why one of the critical skills that we teach is not just being able to draw quickly without looking at the gun, but being able to keep an eye on the danger zone while holstering one-handed by feel so you can see what is going on around you, and when the officer gets there you are not the threatening figure with the pistol. You are the person in the non-threatening position, say your hands are about shoulder high with palms forward showing you are unarmed.

Call the Police.

When they arrive, "Officer, I am the one who called you, this is the man who attacked me, he may still have a weapon, I do not know if there are any more."

Whoever calls in first gets to be the victim complainant. There is only one other role open in the play, and that's the perpetrator. You want to be the one who makes the telephone call. The perpetrator is laying there in a puddle of blood doing a remarkably convincing imitation of a victim. You by default become the perp if you do not make the call in. The system is keyed on the assumption that whoever made that initial call is the victim.

I think there are five points that really need to be covered here. A lot of folks will say don't say anything until your lawyer gets there. That's too late, there are a lot of things the cops need to know before they can establish in their mind who's the good guy and who's the bad guy. The 5 point checklist I teach is this:

1. Officer, this man attacked me.
2. I will sign the complaint.
3. Evidence is here.
4. The witnesses are there.
5. Officer, you will have my full cooperation in 24 hours after I have spoken with counsel.

If we don't say those things, if we don't point out the evidence, it disappears.

I did one case in Connecticut. The shooting went down on a cold, icy night. The spent brass will literally blow across an icy street from the wind and from passing cars. If you look at it, 9 MM or 45 brass is just the right size to get caught in the treads of people's shoes or in the treads of passing cars. The evidence that he shot at you if you don't point it out to the officers is gone and it is never coming back. The witnesses are over here thinking could this be some drug shooting or vengeful gang-banger. They don't know what's going on. "Do we really want to get involved?" If they leave, the testimony that would have proven you innocent leaves with them.

So basically, to recap:

1. Point out Perpetrator to Police. ("This man attacked me, clearly showing he is the perpetrator, you are the victim).
2. Tell Police you will "Sign the Complaint". ("I will sign the complaint." Cop language that tells them, "He is the victim complainant, the guy on the ground is the subject of the complaint.)
3. Point out the evidence to the police.
4. Point out Witnesses to Police.
5. Will Give Full Cooperation in 24 hours After speaking with Attorney. (From then on, whatever else is said, "Officer, you know how serious this is. You will have my full cooperation in 24 hours after I have spoken with counsel").

At that point, don't offer anything more. That is your name rank and serial number. Basically, the police officer who is there on the scene will be the one whom the court will be looking to, to say, "what do you think?". The court, the prosecutor, and the investigating detectives will follow him. The tone of this whole investigation is going to be set in the seconds and minutes after the shooting has taken place. The four or five minutes after the shooting may determine where you get to live for the next 20 years.

{I especially agree with the common sense notion that you never get a second chance to make a first impression. You must set the tone in the first seconds and minutes of dealing with law enforcement.

Personally, I have weighed the pros and cons of keeping totally silent versus dealing with the five points, above. I look at this way. If I actually become a criminal and start deliberately committing crimes, then I will follow the defense attorney's suggestion to keep my mouth shut.

However, if I am a law abiding citizen who has just encountered a BG perpetrating a felony on me, I will act like an honest citizen and make the complaint per the guidelines above. It seems like a reasonable course to take.}

VMI77 wrote:

baldeagle wrote:You never lose your right to remain silent and can invoke it at any time. Anything you say before that may be used against you in a court of law.

".... At this point I'd like to invoke my right to legal counsel and to remain silent."

This isn't really true since around 2013 when the Supreme Court ruled on the Salinas v. Texas case.

Prosecutors argued that since Salinas was answering some questions – therefore not invoking his right to silence – and since he wasn't under arrest and wasn't compelled to speak, his silence on the incriminating question doesn't get constitutional protection.

Salinas' "Fifth Amendment claim fails because he did not expressly invoke the privilege against self-incrimination in response to the officer's question," Justice Samuel Alito said. "It has long been settled that the privilege `generally is not self-executing' and that a witness who desires its protection `must claim it.'"

I think you were misinterpreting baldeagle's response. He clearly states someone who starts off by talking still possesses the right to invoke his 5th Amendment privileges at any time afterwards. Both of you are in agreement (as am I) that such a right must be explicitly asserted by the person. In fact, baldeagle's statement nails it: "I'd like to invoke my right to legal counsel and to remain silent."