TexasCHLforum.com

Well, knew this would start circling the drain sooner or later. IBTL.

Keith B wrote:But I digress, so bottom line, I would not be against open carry being legal in unincorporated parts of Texas (aka outside of the city limits), but anyone who thinks they are going to be able to strap on a gun and walk around Austin or Plano without causing a stir is delusional IMO.

Keith B wrote:We're just going to have to agree to disagree (partially). The biggest difference is that VA always has had it and Texas never has. Trying to educate all of the people all at once will be a major undertaking. Add to that the large amount of those who are here that don't have a firm (or any) concept of the English language and it would be a LONG road until the majority understand it is an accepted thing. And, yes, over time (a LONG time), it would get there.

One other factor to consider; VA has no city population over 425,000, with a total population of the state a little over 7 million. The Dallas/Fort Worth metro area has right at 7 million alone. Dallas, Houston and San Antonio cities alone are over 1 million each in population, with about 20 million total in the state.

Things can change easier than you think, Keith.

Ohio is not exactly known as the leading state for gun rights, having only passed CHL legislation in 2004. But there have been expansions of firearms rights in just about every session since, including a key one that established statewide preemption in 2007. Note the language that established open carry as a right, and note that cities/counties etc. are not allowed to make more restrictive laws.

Ohio Revised Code 9.68 Right to bear arms - challenge to law.

(A) The individual right to keep and bear arms, being a fundamental individual right that predates the United States Constitution and Ohio Constitution, and being a constitutionally protected right in every part of Ohio, the general assembly finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state regulating the ownership, possession, purchase, other acquisition, transport, storage, carrying, sale, or other transfer of firearms, their components, and their ammunition. Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law, a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition.

(B) In addition to any other relief provided, the court shall award costs and reasonable attorney fees to any person, group, or entity that prevails in a challenge to an ordinance, rule, or regulation as being in conflict with this section.

(C) As used in this section:

(1) The possession, transporting, or carrying of firearms, their components, or their ammunition include, but are not limited to, the possession, transporting, or carrying, openly or concealed on a person’s person or concealed ready at hand, of firearms, their components, or their ammunition.

Once we had the legal foundation stating carrying openly was a right, Ohioans for Concealed Carry undertook a statewide education effort sending information packets regarding open carry to every police force in the state. We divvied up the state by counties and volunteers assembled mailing lists of all the village, city, township, and county police agencies in every county.

It notified law enforcement of the legal status, including that state law provides for paying attorney's fees when necessary. It also had the beneficial impact of putting all the agencies on written notice, so they could not claim ignorance if there were subsequent civil rights claims.

As a result, the climate for Open Carry has changed dramatically in that state in just a few years. Personally, I open carried in Columbus multiple days every week for years, including places like near the Ohio State campus, downtown, shopping malls, and all the kinds of trendy urban areas that you would not expect to see that happen. Columbus is larger than Austin, and is also a liberal state capital, with a Democrat Mayor-for-life.

I wasn't dogmatic about open carry. I simply liked having the choice of how much I wanted to cover up, and I liked never having to worry whether I was "correctly" concealed. For example, I like being unconcealed when driving because firearm access with a seatbelt was already hard enough. If I stopped for gas, it was great to just get out of the car and start pumping gas without going through the rigamarole of re-concealing.

During that time, I had 3 or 4 pleasant conversations with police officers, for example, when they were working private duty in the front of a grocery store. I never had a law enforcement problem when open carrying.

It was also interesting that almost no-one ever noticed I even had a gun on my hip. That is when I truly realized how the Sheeple walk around in Condition White all the time. As a consequence, I never worry about being made for carrying concealed around here.

Anyway, I am simply trying to say if you get the right kind of efforts underway, it is amazing how much things can change in a short time. I think you would be surprised how quickly things could change here, given the right circumstances. When it is 100 degrees next summer, I will think back fondly to how easy it is to carry in the heat when you don't need to fret about concealment.

Jusster wrote:

Jumping Frog wrote:Good guys walking around with holstered handguns are a different story than gangbangers walking around with a "fotay" shoved in their hoodie.

So how does one determine the “good guys” from the “bad guys”? Dress code? I’m not so thrilled about the idea of unlicensed open carry. I see it as a big problem waiting to happen.

If you had ever lived somewhere where open carry was common, you'd realize that it is pretty easy to tell the difference. Gangbangers have typically had multiple "police experiences" already that have taught them they do not want to be caught with a gun. They don't wear holsters, period. You see a guy walking through the grocery store with a handgun openly holstered on his belt, that is not someone I'd assume is a criminal.

I'd only be interested in open carry if it was part of unlicensed open carry, requiring plain sight with a holster defined as plain sight. Good guys walking around with holstered handguns are a different story than gangbangers walking around with a "fotay" shoved in their hoodie.

Keep the signage provisions for open carriers distinctly different from the standard 30.06 signs that apply to licensed concealed carry. I've reason the concerns that open carriers would poison the posted businesses for all the CHL's who currently enjoy pretty wide access. So make the signage requirements distinctly different. After all CHL's have done the background check, training etc. They should be granted better access.

The last session simply took the existing CHL statutes and allowed open carry for CHL's. I believe that was a tactical error.