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VMI77 wrote: One of the problems with heading to another country is that there really are no other countries that are better. In Hitler's Germany, Jews could escape to America and in that particular situation most countries were probably better. The same was true after the war for those people living in Soviet Russia or communist eastern Europe. With the destruction of America there is no place left to escape to. It's not just the US that is on the verge of collapse, it's the entire world.

Even if other countries weren't already teetering on the brink a US collapse would bring a lot of them down. I don't want to be a foreigner and outsider in another country when everything comes apart. I don't think "rich" Americans are going to fare too well in other countries during a global economic collapse. Americans abroad are more likely to find themselves being scapegoated, and as outsiders are likely to be targets for the wrath of the indigenous population. Emigration is really only viable when you leave a less stable country for a more stable country, and in a generally stable world. I don't see any countries that are more stable than the US however unstable the US may be at the moment.

Excuse me, but that's the voice or Reason.

There is no place to go, we have to stay and fight for our country internally; steadfastly, reasonably, relentlessly, and firmly, against those who would tear it down.

Look: Orville and Wilbur flew in 1903; by 1918 you could buy a surplus JN-4 and go barnstorming. 15 years. Humans (Americans!) landed on the moon in 1969. If the pattern of "brand new" to "commonplace" held, I'd be able to buy a used space ship now, and my wife and I could head for the asteroid belt to do some mining.

We can't. Practically speaking, there is nowhere to go - so we live here and die here. Whether we die as free people or as slaves is not up to them, it is up to us.

VoiceofReason, I think you and I share some of the same concerns, and I think it is a matter of perspective.

I am old, tired, grey, wrinkled, deaf, and don't see my front sight so well anymore - or anything else, for that matter.

Reading the news overwhelms me with despair, for my blessed USA and for the world.

But when I think back to the 1950s, what they call "The Ike and Mamie Good Years" - Mickey Mouse Club on TV, Davey Crockett on TV on Disney, the marvelous plastic / die cast 6-shooters, the superb stamped sheetmetal M3 greasegun that was my favorite WWII gun - I have to admit that there were downsides too.

Without going on and on about how some things are better today, I just want to suggest that, even if "gay" marriage becomes legal/accepted, those of us who are married to people of the opposite sex will not suddenly become outlaws. I don't think the government has any place in the marriage racket anyway; it is for religious persons to preside, and the government and tax people need to get the heck out of the picture.

I don't think legalizing pot will change much - people who want to smoke it will smoke it, and have always done so. At best, making it clear that drugs are for losers - legal, but engaged in by folks disinclined or unable to do productive work - might keep some youngsters from trying it just to be rebellious.

I could go on and on - famous for it - but the point is that this is a Great country, a great culture (multifaceted, like a jewel), and if it is indeed sliding downhill, it is doing so at a glacial pace. I thought we were on the brink of collapse when I was in like, 8th grads - and it's been a while, and we haven't collapsed yet.

The background radiation is "normal", no bullets or shrapnel flying past my head, no poison gas or nerve gas - I say we've got it darn good!

Seems the DC cops are ok with it:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politic ... -1.2193445in his ppower -

Spirited debate is good. Life would be boring if everyone agreed on everything.

And, for all the people pining for "the good old days" - I think it would be amusing to look up J. Edgar Hoover and think about the chokehold the FBI had on the government of those days. Both left and right were in his power, or in the power of the mob.

This is my Country and I love it. Had my grandfather not brought his family here in the early 1900s, they'd have been dead and I'd never have been born.