TexasCHLforum.com

boomerang wrote:

Liberty wrote:I propose that there is reasonable doubt that the law does apply to an out of state permit and that there is no penalty. If there is no penalty is there really law?

Like the time limit in the CHL law for DPS to process applications and issue a license?

Yeah, something like that. or Galveston's illegal 30.06 signs.

anygunanywhere wrote:

Liberty wrote: While I don't recommend ignoring any old laws, We all break laws at some point or another.

That is true, and I violate traffic codes and other laws all of the time. With the number of laws on the books one cannot do anything without breaking a law. That is not the point of this thread.

Showing your CHL when asked for ID is the point and Charles' post affirms the requirement.

What other firearms laws are we going to publicly post that we intend to violate and then claim we are the good guys when we encounter an LEO that disarms us? We can not have it both ways.

If you do not want to go through the hassle of explaining the Utah CHL, get your Texas CHL. Problem solved.

Anygunanywhere

Please understand I wasn't suggesting that I was breaking or intending on breaking any law. I have my Texas CHL, and have always displayed my CHL when asked for ID even if not required. While Charles suggested he believes that the law does state that carrying a Utah CCL does require that one present it when asked for an ID. I propose that there is reasonable doubt that the law does apply to an out of state permit and that there is no penalty. If there is no penalty is there really law?

I do understand that Charles is a lawyer and I am not, he writes the law and I'm only a legislator wannabe. Yet, I do believe that my point is valid. I will accept that I'm wrong if someone can explain that my defense logic is unreasonable or that there is a realistic risk of penalty. My reasoning is that showing the Utah CCL when asked for an ID is more likely to have unpleasant results than not showing it. At least if its at a typical traffic stop. Remember what the penalty is for not offering the CCL. And how cops can behave if they suspect unlawful carry. If there is no penalty is there really a crime? The advice to get the Texas CHL is good, unfortunately there are certain people who are ineligible for the Texas CHL who are eligible for Utah's CCL.

anygunanywhere wrote:Then you are saying that you will break the law. NIce way to show how CHLers are really good guys who respect the law.

If LEO asks you if you are armed, are you going to lie? If you have it on your person and he asks you to exit the vehicle then you must either admit that you have a Utah CHL or else deny you have a Utah CHL and you are carrying concealed illegally.

You are better off just showing your Utah CHL and doing what you are supposed to do.

Anygunanywhere

While I don't recommend ignoring any old laws, We all break laws at some point or another. Sometimes because the laws just don't make sense. Homowners break laws when they have someone help them or they help a friend with electric plumbing or air condititioning. Technically anytime anyone drives by a school with an out of state permit they break the law. Almost all of us have actually commited the crime of speeding, and I know very few who try to pay sales tax on a FTF sale. While I understand what Chas. was saying and that technically he should show the Utah permit, I don't believe that it is a clear cut with any real penalies. In other words its unlikely that any thing would ever come of it, and if anything did come it it, the case would likely get tossed.

On the other hand, By showing the Utah permit, with a Texas Drivers license one is exposing himself to suspicion. LEO's are a suspicious lot by nature. They could be wondering "Why didn't this guy get a Texas CHL", and "What is in his history that caused him to be ineligible?" They might not understand that the permit is legal here in Texas. Is it possible that showing the permit under these conditions would more likely cause the Utah permit holder a night in the pokey, than not bringing it up?

This being the case, I always show my CHL even when out of state where its not required, or if not carrying. If the requirement goes away I still intend on presenting it to a LEO when presenting my license. I just find it the best method of opening what could be a delicate subject. In do hope if that the OP gets his Texas CHL. It helps prevent such awkwardness.