Search found 6 matches

by Liberty
Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:38 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Who's for less Prohibited places?
Replies: 71
Views: 5117

Re: Who's for less Prohibited places?

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Liberty wrote:If that were the case why wouldn't they rate Libertarians that are running against a single candidate.
Neither organization can add a third-party candidate to some races (ones with only an incumbent and a Libertarian candidate) but not others that have both a Democrat and Republican running.
I don't understand why not?
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Liberty wrote:I don't believe that they should be giving every Libertarian a blank endorsement. Simply to acknowledge them and rate them as they would any other candidate.
That's where the potential pro-gun vote dilution come in. If there is a Democrat or Republican with an A or A+ rating running against an opponent with a B or lower rating, the addition of any third party candidate with an A rating will dilute the pro-gun vote.

And if TSRA and NRA rate Libertarians, would you also have us rate any other third party candidates? How about independent candidates? If not, why not? Why should the Libertarian Party rate special treatment not afforded to all third party and independent candidates? If you say "yes, rate everyone in the race," then there's even greater potential for pro-gun vote dilution.
It would only be fair to list and rate all the candidates. To turn a blind eye and not even acknowledge that they exist is dishonest.
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Liberty wrote:Just ignoring us will not make us go away. If the NRA/TSRA wants to grow its numbers perhaps they might consider not alienating thousands of their supporters and working with them instead.
Neither the TSRA nor NRA are trying to make the Libertarian Party go away. If the Party appeals to enough people then it will grow and become a viable political force and it will win some elections. If that ever happens, then I'm confident that the NRA and TSRA will rate their candidates.

If Libertarians are alienated from the NRA and TSRA, then they are not as committed to the Second Amendment as they claim. Why would any true Second Amendment supporter ask the NRA or TSRA to act in a manner that could jeopardize gun rights? Diluting pro-gun votes and having an anti-gunner elected just to be "fair" to the Libertarian candidate would be a disservice to our members, to the entire gun-owning public and to our mission. Asking us to do so is putting the welfare of the Libertarian Party ahead of the Second Amendment and gun owners.

The Libertarian Party isn't singled out for special treatment. As many TexasCHLforum members know, I've been politically active in Second Amendment issues for 30 years. I've been on the NRA Board of Directors since 2001, I've worked with TSRA's Legislative Committee/Legislative Director since 1987, and I've "officially" been Vice-Chairman of the TSRA Legislative Committee since 2003. If I were to run for office as a Libertarian, I would not be rated by either the NRA or TSRA. If I ran as a Republican against an A or A+ rated Democrat, I'd get an A rating, but both the NRA and TSRA would endorse my opponent. That's the way it should be.

Let me ask two questions? First, have any Libertarian candidates running for state office against a Democrat or Republican been elected? (This isn't a loaded question, I really don't know. I don't think so, but I'm not at all sure.) Secondly, does the Libertarian Party claim to be "conservative" as many members claim on gun boards?

Chas.
The NRA has a reputation for nor playing well with others. They tend to look at others with similar goals as the competition. They attempted sabotage on Parker vs DC was shameful. Believe me the Libertarians are not always united in everything, but I've never met a member of the LIbertarian party that didn't feel stronger about the RKBA than Jonquil Jackson. The big difference with the Libertarians is that they are focused on the whole package of freedoms and not just the single issue.

They didn't win any offices this time in Texas that I know of.

I don't believe Libertarians can be classified as Conservative or mostly Conservative.. They simply believe in freedoms from the Government. fer instance.
The government should be small. (most Republicans these days seem to like a fat government)
The Government shouldn't be deciding our moral values ..that should be up to moms and pops.
The Government isn't a Charity .. That's for our churches and organizations like the Red Cross.
The Government shouldn't be involved in religious functions like marriage
The Government needn't be making us be safe if we don't endanger others (Seat belts helmets)
Government needn't be sponsoring businesses and bailing them out.
The Government should be protecting us from crimminals and bad governments
We have a right to succeed and a right to fail.
by Liberty
Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:01 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Who's for less Prohibited places?
Replies: 71
Views: 5117

Re: Who's for less Prohibited places?

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I understand Liberty's objection to the TSRA and NRA rating practices. However, the fundamental truth is that both organizations are charged with protecting the Second Amendment and gun owners, not helping political parties grow. Our m arching orders are togo out and win and we can't do that by diluting the pro-gun votes for third-party candidates that have absolutely no chance of winning.

I have posted on the recount in Texas House District 105 where the incumbent pro-gun, A-rated Republican defeated her Democrat challenger by 25 votes, with the Libertarian getting 1,059 votes. This election is going to determine whether the Republicans or the Democrats control the Texas House. So the theory that one should "vote your principles" because it won't affect the election is simply not always true.

Chas.
If that were the case why wouldn't they rate Libertarians that are running against a single candidate. I don't believe that they should be giving every Libertarian a blank endorsement. Simply to acknowledge them and rate them as they would any other candidate. Just ignoring us will not make us go away. If the NRA/TSRA wants to grow its numbers perhaps they might consider not alienating thousands of their supporters and working with them instead.
by Liberty
Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:54 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Who's for less Prohibited places?
Replies: 71
Views: 5117

Re: Who's for less Prohibited places?

bdickens wrote:Did you vote? Did you completely agree 100% with the candidae you voted for? No? Then why did you vote for him?
Yes I voted, There were several things I didn't agree with my candidate on.

Do you work? Do you completely agree 100% with everything your employer asks of you? No? Then why do you work there?

Are you married? Do you completely agree 100% with your spouse on everything? No? Then why do you stay married?
The problem with McCain while he may have been a better choice than Obama, is that he is still a backstabbing leftist who supports AWB. The fact that he was involved with the Keating 5 scandal really didn't come into play. There are differences ... and then there are fundimental differences that can't be overcome. No conservative could be happy with McCain, they just wouldn't hate him quite as much as they do Obama.
by Liberty
Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:12 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Who's for less Prohibited places?
Replies: 71
Views: 5117

Re: Who's for less Prohibited places?

anygunanywhere wrote:
Liberty wrote: My issue though is that there have been implications that those who don't belong to the NRA TSRA are somehow slackers, I kind of resented that. Because I have worked hard for our cause. I don't mean to alam the NRA and TSRa But to point out why some people might shy away from them.. The fact is they have treated Libertarians unfairly. They have treated me personally unfairly.
Liberty,

If there were some way for me personally to resolve the conflicts you have with the NRA I would do so.

In a way, I do believe that those who value their 2A and do not support the organizaations that fight for their 2A rights are slackers if that is the term you want to use. I have been a life member since the '80s and have contributed to many NRA drives. I am a life TSRA member.

All of the groups that support the RKBA have shown their bad side occaisionally, even the GOA.

If we don't all band together somehow we will all lose the fight.

Anygunanywhere
They refuse to even admit that Libertarians exist. They will rate Democrats and Republicans. I ran against a Democrat who was rated A- They only acknowledged the Democrat. Every libertarian sholkd be 100% behind the RKBA. Many refuse to join the NRA because of this issue. I am simply talking about acknowledging and rating Libertarians, not even about getting a stamp of approval. To be honest my party means a lot more to me than any single item PAC. This is not an occassional thing they do this year after year. Most libertarians are active politically, and many will support RKBA candidates even if they aren't Democrats. Labeling them Slackers is a bit unfair. I would bet they and I do more letter writing and phone calling than the average NRA member.
by Liberty
Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:06 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Who's for less Prohibited places?
Replies: 71
Views: 5117

Re: Who's for less Prohibited places?

anygunanywhere wrote:
Liberty wrote: There are some very good reasons why some folks won't the TSRA or NRA and it starts with their candidate rating list. Joining the TSRA or NRA isn't the only way that one can fight for the NRA. The NRA and TSRA really have a problem with supporting the only true anti gun banning political party in America. While they continue to show disrespect for Libertarians they have Directors like Joquin Jackson telling Texans we don't need to have guns that can carry more than 5 rounds. The NRA and TRSA need to look at why some people are reluctant to join. While I did join the NRA I am told that very little of our money is actually spent on political activism. that most goes to magazines and training and operational costs.. Money might be better spent actually supporting candidates that support our cause.
Liberty, with all due respect to your position, and I do agree to a point, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Who is your fight with, the NRA or the antis?

You really dislike some of the things about the NRA. If you are not a member, you cannot vote to change things.

Are you going to keep screaming your objections to the NRA and continue to let your rights be eroded?

Pound for pound, dollar for dollar, the NRA has done more to preserve your second amendment rights than ALL other organizations combined.

Anygunanywhere
Freedom isn't just about guns .. its much bigger than that.

My issue though is that there have been implications that those who don't belong to the NRA TSRA are somehow slackers, I kind of resented that. Because I have worked hard for our cause. I don't mean to alam the NRA and TSRa But to point out why some people might shy away from them.. The fact is they have treated Libertarians unfairly. They have treated me personally unfairly.
by Liberty
Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:47 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Who's for less Prohibited places?
Replies: 71
Views: 5117

Re: Who's for less Prohibited places?

anygunanywhere wrote:Jim,

My belief in the total literal meaning of the second amendment should be obvious, but I do have a side that can see reality.

How do we accomplish those goals?

Get the gun owners who are not active off of their collective La-z-boys and get in the fight. This is a fight.

The ones who are in the La-z-boys are going to die from boiling frog syndrome.

All I read about lately are these people scrambling out to buy a gun at inflated prices but how many of them belong to the NRA? TSRA?

This is where the antis beat us, not in emotion, but in activism.

If there are any posters on this board who are not members of the NRA and TSRA they really need to focus on what is truly important in their lives.

Freedom isn't.

Anygunanywhere
There are some very good reasons why some folks won't the TSRA or NRA and it starts with their candidate rating list. Joining the TSRA or NRA isn't the only way that one can fight for the NRA. The NRA and TSRA really have a problem with supporting the only true anti gun banning political party in America. While they continue to show disrespect for Libertarians they have Directors like Joquin Jackson telling Texans we don't need to have guns that can carry more than 5 rounds. The NRA and TRSA need to look at why some people are reluctant to join. While I did join the NRA I am told that very little of our money is actually spent on political activism. that most goes to magazines and training and operational costs.. Money might be better spent actually supporting candidates that support our cause.

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