TexasCHLforum.com

mojo84 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

CoffeeNut wrote:

Bullitt wrote:

Bullitt wrote:My employer just announced 30.07 signage and also 30.06 signage since all this open carry crap brought it to their attention. To those of you living in the "conceptual" world instead of the "practical" world, THANKS FOR NOTHING!

Oh! And I forgot to mention we are having layoffs because oil prices are in the _______, now more than ever is when CHL is needed. Thanks Bozos!

How is it the fault of those that support open carry that your place of employment is now posted not only 30.07 but 30.06 as well? When a business takes advantage of something like open carry in order to fully express their anti-gun views I don't necessarily blame those that are for open carry, rather I blame the business that decided they could get away with finally expressing their views. When I can go to a liberal place like Trader Joes and see a 30.07 sign right next to a sign saying CC is good to go it really makes me think that those now posting both were just anxiously waiting for an opportunity to post without backlash. Can we blame OC for this? Sure, but I'd rather redirect the blame onto the businesses that would rather see patrons die in their store than have someone defend themselves, otherwise the pro-gun movement in Texas is just going to tear itself apart.

If you feel your place of employment is now at greater risk of a shooting from a disgruntled employee maybe you should voice your complaints to management. What's the harm in doing so especially when they've already got legal signs up?

It happened with my employer too and my company is about as conservative as a company can get. I don't think they were looking for an excuse as CC had been explicitly endorsed by the company for years. I think he's right that 30.07 precipitated lawyer involvement and lawyer involvement led to banning everything...just in case.

I don't think the risk of workplace violence at my place of employment is any different that it always has been (neglecting possible acts of terrorism which I consider unlikely) but should one occur my ability to defend myself has definitely been greatly diminished.

Blaming the concept of open carry is like blaming the gun for violence. It's the few loudmouth morons that brought a negative light on it and the lawyers and execs that are making illogical and irrational decisions by banning concealed carry at this point in time.

But I didn't blame the concept of OC. I think the in your face tactics of OCT are counter productive but I've made several posts on various threads saying that in the long run OC is better for retaining gun rights because it will accommodate more of the public to seeing guns and remove some of the mystery and hysteria promoted by the media and the anti gun crowd. 40 years ago seeing a rifle or shotgun in public didn't generate the hysteria it does today. A gradual and considerate exposure to OC may regain some of that lost ground.

I actually don't know why my company policy changed but I suspect it was due to getting a lawyer involved and the lawyer advocating that banning both was the safest play. Our company got new legal representation, and from a larger firm that is probably more cautious than one man operations like they've used in the past, and from what I can tell, the company is involving lawyers in areas that were previously handled in house by management (principally, engineers). So, it wasn't OC per se, but OC required a policy adaptation and where it may have been addressed solely by management in the past it is now being vetted by lawyers.

CoffeeNut wrote:

Bullitt wrote:

Bullitt wrote:My employer just announced 30.07 signage and also 30.06 signage since all this open carry crap brought it to their attention. To those of you living in the "conceptual" world instead of the "practical" world, THANKS FOR NOTHING!

Oh! And I forgot to mention we are having layoffs because oil prices are in the _______, now more than ever is when CHL is needed. Thanks Bozos!

How is it the fault of those that support open carry that your place of employment is now posted not only 30.07 but 30.06 as well? When a business takes advantage of something like open carry in order to fully express their anti-gun views I don't necessarily blame those that are for open carry, rather I blame the business that decided they could get away with finally expressing their views. When I can go to a liberal place like Trader Joes and see a 30.07 sign right next to a sign saying CC is good to go it really makes me think that those now posting both were just anxiously waiting for an opportunity to post without backlash. Can we blame OC for this? Sure, but I'd rather redirect the blame onto the businesses that would rather see patrons die in their store than have someone defend themselves, otherwise the pro-gun movement in Texas is just going to tear itself apart.

If you feel your place of employment is now at greater risk of a shooting from a disgruntled employee maybe you should voice your complaints to management. What's the harm in doing so especially when they've already got legal signs up?

It happened with my employer too and my company is about as conservative as a company can get. I don't think they were looking for an excuse as CC had been explicitly endorsed by the company for years. I think he's right that 30.07 precipitated lawyer involvement and lawyer involvement led to banning everything...just in case.

I don't think the risk of workplace violence at my place of employment is any different that it always has been (neglecting possible acts of terrorism which I consider unlikely) but should one occur my ability to defend myself has definitely been greatly diminished.

mikebass78 wrote:horrible law, period.

Like i shared in the other forum, after carry my rifle to the car from cabelas, and watching a little girl, freak and run back to her dad.

It's a horrible idea Texas.

Do you think that kind of reaction is good for your long term gun rights prospects? Why do you think it happened....because she'd seen a lot of guns or had never seen a gun in public? The media hypes guns as evil objects to sow hysteria and produce exactly that kind of reaction. It is highly unlikely you would have seen that kind of reaction 40 years ago when people carrying rifles and shotguns were a fairly common sight.

IOW, the reason for that reaction is ignorance. Do you think that ignorance will be cured by everyone hiding their guns? Or will hiding guns facilitate ignorance? When I was in high school any number of kids had rifles and shotguns visibly displayed in gun racks in the pickups they parked in the school parking lot. I used to walk out of my house and down the street to a place where I could go shooting with a gun slung over my shoulder. No one freaked out. People weren't apoplectic seeing a bunch of high school kids with shotguns or rifles in front of the local mom and pop store after their morning hunt.

Over the long term we're not going to diffuse public reaction and perception by keeping guns hidden away. If we want to retain our rights guns need to be demystified and seen for what they are...self-defense tools...rather than instruments of evil with their own free will as the media and the left would have people believe. I'm not advocating in your face open carry tactics and don't plan to open carry much myself, but gradually and considerately exposing more of the public to guns may help more people adjust to be less afraid of them...and that's a good thing.

switch wrote:

Any lawyer worth his salt would destroy that suit in five minutes. Mrs. Ruark, did you see the 30.06 sign in the window? Isn't that the reason that your husband disarmed? Didn't he know it was illegal to enter the store with his weapon? Yet, didn't you enter the store anyway, knowing that you were disarmed and that you might be in danger?

I could see the danger? And the store owner could not? Doesn't seem like that would work too well. :)

I think the point is, you chose to enter and put your convenience over your safety. I'm rabidly pro-gun, but if I was on a jury and someone voluntarily disarmed to enter a posted business, and something bad happened, I'd see it as a consequence of his choice to place his convenience above his safety; or I'd have to think that he didn't really believe he'd be any any danger. Furthermore, to me volunteering to spend money in an anti-gun business is akin to collaborating with the enemy, so such a person probably wouldn't want me on the jury.

Out and about at lunch....picked up my internet order at the local Chilis, went to the library, got gas....checked businesses for signs as I passed...I still haven't seen a 30.06 or 30.07 sign on any business. I also have yet to see anyone open carrying.

ScottDLS wrote:

Tell that to the guys that can no longer carry at work. To the guys that now have to change their shopping routines, because the stores they've gone to for years are no longer available to them. The tradeoff might seem worthwhile to you, because it's had no impact on you personally. It might seem a lot less worthwhile to someone who has now had to disarm.

There were companies that allowed their employees to carry at work, that then changed their minds and posted 30.06/30.07 because of open carry, AND prohibited their employees from carrying? Maybe there's ONE guy on this board where that happened, but even that's hard to believe. I'm still waiting to see how many places that had 30.06 posted failed to update the language for 2016.

The stores they've gone to for years...we have Half Price Books and unconfirmed reports of the odd gas station and Applebees. In DFW we have the Mills mall that took down their sign.

I'm still guessing MORE places we can CC legally and definitely MORE where we can OC.

Uh, missed this before, but you think I'm lying or what? I think I've made it clear that I don't "know" if OC caused the switch, but it happened. About three months ago our company policy was updated. The policy allowed CC for about the past 5 years. During that time the company held a CHL class on company property for employees. The policy change three months ago made approval of CC more explicit but it didn't even mention OC, which I considered a bad sign. Then about a month ago, before the holidays, we were called into a meeting and told the policy had been changed again to prohibit both CC and OC...and that 30.06/30.07 signs would be posted at the entrance gates.

No reason was given for the change. I asked a pro-gun person in management that I can trust....he didn't know the reason but he did know that someone in management pointed out that the recent policy change did not address OC and that it was coming on January 1, 2016. In a month the policy changed from allowing CC and not mentioning OC to prohibiting both CC and OC. And I should mention....when I first got my CHL company policy prohibited CC. About a year later the policy was changed to allow it. I don't know what politics motivated the change but I do know that the big boss at the time had a CHL. So, was the recent change prompted by OC? I don't know but I suspect it was.

That said....so far, OC hasn't otherwise affected me. I haven't seen any 30.06 signs where there weren't any before OC. I'm not in the same situation at work that many are where CC is prohibited. My office is inside a secure facility with armed guards and I park right in front of the entrance. I don't have to walk back and forth from my vehicle through any sketchy areas, and I don't have to worry about anyone breaking into my car and stealing my gun.

LTUME1978 wrote:Was also told that now I can't have a pistol in my vehicle when I use it for company business travel. They were really stirred up over this open carry thing.

Can you define using it for company business travel? You mean use reimbursed by the company? What is the nature of the travel? IOW, how is it any different than driving your vehicle to your normal work location? My company suddenly prohibited CC and OC so those of us that used to drive company vehicles can no longer carry in company vehicles. I switched to driving my private vehicle at my own expense. If I did a lot of traveling that might not be practical but I can handle a 2 hour trip on the average of once a month. If I'm driving to a meeting in Houston it's no different than if I'm driving to work.

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

cyphertext wrote:

Soccerdad1995 wrote:I live in Katy and I work in Houston. Since January 1, I have not had a single location I visit that now prohibits CC where they did not do so before. My work has always prohibited the possession of weapons by policy, but not by law (no signs). That did not change. I have been to 11 restaurants (including fast food). None are posted at all. I have been to 7 stores. Only one of these is posted (an HEB), and that is only 30.07.

The only difference for me is that I can now OC pretty much every place that I would normally go. I don't think that I am in the minority to say that there has been no noticeably negative impact for me. I think that a lot of folks are focusing on the number of entries on Texas30.06 without thinking about whether they are really even impacted at all.

That said, I am fortunate to have a pretty broad selection of stores and restaurants for anything I might want, so even if some of my "favorite" places post, I will just have to find new "favorites". I do feel for anyone in a rural area who loses every reasonably close place to buy groceries and the like.

Get back to me when you try to take the family to Half Price Books, AMC Theaters, or Denny's just to name a few. If you haven't seen 30.07 signs up, you haven't been looking.

I won't be getting back to you because I haven't been to a HPB in at least 10 years. If I want a book, I usually go to Amazon. Why go to AMC theatres when Santikos is nearby? Santikos blows any other theatre out of the water, IMHO. Denny's? Yeah, not losing much there, either.

I didn't say that there was no place near me posting signs. I said that there was no place I would normally have gone that has banned CC and only one place that bans OC, and I have not had to change my normal routine at all to avoid such places. I also said that I have a wealth of alternatives if I start to encounter more places that don't value my rights. And I don't think that I am in the minority.

I realize that others have had to make more adjustments to their routine. But is the loss of a bookstore really that much of a tragedy in the grand scheme of things? Bookstores (of all types) are headed toward extinction, IMHO, just like Blockbuster. So we will lose all of them soon enough.

OC may have affected my work carry....but then I don't know for sure if it did or didn't. Otherwise, I agree with you....haven't see a single posting so far that prohibits CC at any place I will miss...and no 30.07 signs for that matter, though I admit, I don't get out much except to go to work, or buy gas, groceries, guns, and ammo. 90% of our non-food and gas purchases are over the internet, primarily Amazon. I stopped going to theaters years ago due to the boorish and inconsiderate behavior of other patrons. I'm a movie buff but there isn't a movie made that I can't wait to view on my own "big screen" at home after the DVD comes out.

I live in a rural area btw, and I don't expect to lose any reasonably close place to buy groceries and the like. We've got Walmart, HEB, and Brookshire Brothers in addition to some smaller family owned stores. The only 30.07 sign I've seen so far is at my workplace and the only new 30.06 sign I've seen is there too.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

stingeragent wrote:Ok so I have a hypothetical question to anyone who thinks OCT is the cause for all the anti-gun sentiment. Lets say you go to starbucks and lets say open carry of handguns and long rifles is legal. There was never an OCT group, or any other pro gun group running around with AR's. You go into the store with your holstered pistol and inside is a mom that despises guns and their owners, and refers to them as ammo sexuals. Do you think that mom's response to you is going to be different if your inside with a pistol versus if you went in with an AR on your back?

Probably not, but a pretty good response is "Why is always about sex with you people? Can't you think of anything else?"

Funny too how liberals find terms like that "offensive" and call people homophobes, sexists, racists, and all kinds of other "ists" but love slinging offensive and insulting terms at people they don't like. The other day I saw a photo of an old guy with a gun the libs were ridiculing for being "fat." They had reduced everything about the man to the size of his stomach....yet we're barraged nearly every day by liberals with calls for "fat acceptance."

baldeagle wrote:

Rvrrat14 wrote:As witnessed in several robberies, 30.06/30.07 also let the goblins know where to go!

Sooner or later they all figure it out and become human, whereby they think for themselves.

Patience.....

What universe do you live in? I live in America, and it's been my experience that people don't learn much at all. We keep electing the same "leaders" over and over again, even after they've been convicted of crimes. How does that indicate even a modicum of learning? The nation has been going downhill for 50 years or more and yet people still argue about which party is better for the country when both parties have been destroying it.

Since 1950 every mass shooting but two have taken place in gun free zones. Have you seen much learning going on? Have any gun free zones come down? My God, we even have gun free zones on military bases.

It's been said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. On that basis, at least half, if not more, of Americans are insane. No learning is going to occur in that crowd.

You mention military gun free zones....I left the military in 83, over 30 years ago. When I was in we'd get briefings on possible terrorist attacks yet it didn't stop command from posting sentries not with just unloaded weapons, but weapons with empty mags, so they'd have to remove the empty mag and insert a full mag to resist an attack. The insanity has been around a very long time.

LTUME1978 wrote:jb2012,

You folks are missing the point. You may win over some of the "normal" folks but you will never win over the CEOs/lawyers that put up the 30.06 signs for larger corporations (you won't even get access to them to talk with them). Once these (30.06) are up, they are there to stay. Many of these folks (CEOs) in downtown Houston never gave 30.06 a thought because I guess they thought that everyone was like them (not into guns and cc).

I don't know what else I can say, it you don't get it now, you won't ever get it (unless you get moved to an office in downtown Houston and loose all rights to carry).

Same thing happened at my workplace. CHLs were allowed to carry for years. About two months ago the policy was revised to even more explicitly allow CC....no mention of OC. I don't know for sure that it was due to OC, but about two weeks before Christmas the policy was changed again to prohibit CC and OC and 30.06 and 30.07 signs were posted.

What I do know for sure is that CC wasn't allowed out of ignorance of the law. It was prohibited and many years ago the policy was amended to explicitly allow it. The company even conducted a CHL class for employees on company property. My work place is out in the country and I'd guess that 90% of more of the employees own guns. I don't know any that don't. In my department 50% or more probably have CHLs...so the policy change was not a popular move among employees.