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VMI77

sugar land dave wrote:
PBR wrote:Honestly as others have stated I put nothing pass them. Me and friends had talked many years ago about them possibly banning hollow points, friend of mine thought they would try it long time ago cause of hollow points causing more damage and being more for killing than just wounding, I don't put that past them.
We don't use hollow point to kill, we use it to stop the threat while reducing the chance of a shot passing through the bad guy or multiple walls to injure an innocent.

Also, the reason for banning hollow points is nefarious, not any concern about more effective killing: the banners WANT a self-defense round to penetrate a bad guy and hit an innocent because it provides them with leverage for attacking the concept of self-defense and banning the weapons of self-defense.

VMI77

clarionite wrote:
VMI77 wrote:I don't disagree, but OTOH, this is the most dishonest and corrupt administration in US history --the Nixon administration was a bunch of Boy Scouts compared to this cabal of criminals-- and at the same time our current Republican Congress appears to be the most cowardly bunch of Republicans ever elected (and that's quite a feat). If nothing else I suspect it would be overturned in the Courts, which are now basically, and somewhat ironically, the last hope for the remaining vestiges of Constitutional government. Yet one change on the SC could have serious repercussions for the 2nd Amendment. The current confluence of corruption and cowardice gives me cause for concern.
You give the Republicans too much credit. I usually don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity, but in this case I think they're feigning fear. I don't think they're afraid, I think they're in concert. And that scares the crap out of me.

Yeah, you're right. It's easy to fall into the "gutless Republican" trap even for me at this late date. But yes, they're not cowardly, they're in on it. They're worse than the Democrats because they're pretending to stand for something, but are actually political traitors and saboteurs. While the Democrats may be enemies of liberty, the Republicans are more treacherous. You can after all respect an enemy but fifth columnists, which constitute most of the national GOP, deserve no respect.

VMI77

You can still die even if a round doesn't penetrate your vest. When vests are tested not only penetration is considered, but also deflection. If I remember correctly the testing standard allows for two inches of deflection. That much deflection in the wrong place, such as over your heart, can kill you. A vest may also stop penetration but just allow more than two inches of deflection.

As I understand it, if your body armor doesn't include a metal or ceramic plate, it's not designed to stop rifle rounds. That doesn't mean it won't stop one though....could be it didn't pass the level test for deflection, and sometimes some rounds may not penetrate. I believe that one of the FBI agents in the notorious Florida shootout was wearing a level IIIa or less vest and it stopped some of the rifle rounds he was hit with, but not all, and he died as a result.

VMI77

The Annoyed Man wrote:What I think is that if they ban all .223/5.56 ammo first, and then all rifle ammo, they are going to have the fight they never thought would happen. I'm not turning in any of my ammo. Period.

IF such a ban happens, a big IF (they haven't even banned rifle ammo in the UK), I doubt there would be a requirement to turn in what you have. Most people would just eventually run out, and there would be a black market for ammo.

VMI77

joe817 wrote:It's certainly conceivable that they WILL try to ban all rifle ammo. But I don't think there's a snowball's chance in Big Bend that they would even come close to succeeding. I think the current administration is counting down its days, before we elect a repub. pres. and they are scrambling to try to push as many of their agenda items through as possible.

But I also think that common sense will prevail, and 'they' will be fought, tooth and nail on every agenda item, and will ultimately fail.

There! How's THAT for optomism?

I don't disagree, but OTOH, this is the most dishonest and corrupt administration in US history --the Nixon administration was a bunch of Boy Scouts compared to this cabal of criminals-- and at the same time our current Republican Congress appears to be the most cowardly bunch of Republicans ever elected (and that's quite a feat). If nothing else I suspect it would be overturned in the Courts, which are now basically, and somewhat ironically, the last hope for the remaining vestiges of Constitutional government. Yet one change on the SC could have serious repercussions for the 2nd Amendment. The current confluence of corruption and cowardice gives me cause for concern.

VMI77

http://www.captainsjournal.com/2015/03/ ... green-tip/

So speculation of course ran wild as to the exact intent of the ATF. Are they stupid? Do they not really understand the technical issues they are dealing with? But today B. Todd Jones answered those questions. They are concerned about all 5.56 mm cartridges. Of course they are. But that .270 pointed soft point, shot from a necked down 30-06 cartridge from my bolt action deer hunting rifle? Yes, that’s the one. It will penetrate soft body armor too – lead ball, soft point, all of it. So will lead ball 30-06. So will lead ball .308. So will lead ball 7 mm. Virtually all rifle rounds (except .22LR and .22 WMR) will penetrate soft body armor because kevlar is specified to 9 mm rounds (as regards mass and velocity).

Jones knows that. The ATF at large knows that. What Jones is telling the Congress is that he wants their help in banning rifle ammunition. Rifle ammunition. All of it. They will start with 5.56 mm ammunition, green tip, lead ball, pointed soft point – all of it. Then they will make it clear that all other rifle ammunition is as lethal as 5.56 mm ammunition, so they need a ban on that too

.

Of course this is just someone's opinion, but in light of the recent SC decision giving regulators a free hand to "reinterpret" regulations, it's hard to dismiss this as a possibility. A year ago I would have said it couldn't happen, but with our gutless Republican Congress and a lawless administration untethered by morality or the Constitution I have zero confidence that reason or right will prevail. It would be a gun grabbers dream....

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