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by VMI77
Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:01 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY
Replies: 61
Views: 7489

Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

EEllis wrote:
VMI77 wrote: Well, if we really believed in what the Constitution says in the equal protection clause, then laws punishing one group more severely than some privileged group would be unconstitutional. Our rights are supposed to be individual rights, not collective rights, so a police officer's right to life should not be superior to mine. Elevating the lives of police officers above the lives of those they are supposed to protect is a product of collectivism, and as you suggest, it also makes no logical sense, since the average police office is less vulnerable to violence than the average citizen.
Among other things the statement about police officers being less vulnerable is weak logic. It's like saying someone in a open Jeep in the US is more vulnerable than solders in a armored Humvee would be in a war zone. Additionally you assume that the additional penalty indicates that they have some superior right when historically the extra penalty was because of the Public not the individual officer. It is the public that is additional harmed by being deprived of the service of the public servant, we who bare the additional cost when they are injured.

You seem to be conflating vulnerability and exposure, but even so, you don't have much of a case. I would call your analogy bogus but it doesn't make sense. Your sentence about the additional penalty is so convoluted I'm not sure what you're saying. However, the history of whatever law you're talking about is completely irrelevant to my statement, as is whatever justification supported it. I made a general statement about treating police officers and citizens unequally under the law. Your last sentence is just, well, for lack of a better word: sophistry. Collectivism seems to be the kernel of whatever argument you're attempting to make: it appears you would subordinate the rights of an individual to some supposed benefit of the collective. The logic of collectivism justifies any depredation, including mass murder. Sorry, but this country was founded based on individual rights, not the rights of any supposed collective.
by VMI77
Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:45 am
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY
Replies: 61
Views: 7489

Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

handog wrote:The law should hold the NYPD to a higher standard of conduct, and punishments should be more severe considering the powers they are granted and the fact they already receive greater protections than civilians when they themselves are attacked. As it is, police brutality for the most part goes unpunished.
Well, if we really believed in what the Constitution says in the equal protection clause, then laws punishing one group more severely than some privileged group would be unconstitutional. Our rights are supposed to be individual rights, not collective rights, so a police officer's right to life should not be superior to mine. Elevating the lives of police officers above the lives of those they are supposed to protect is a product of collectivism, and as you suggest, it also makes no logical sense, since the average police office is less vulnerable to violence than the average citizen.
by VMI77
Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:28 am
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY
Replies: 61
Views: 7489

Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

chasfm11 wrote:They say that best course of action with a bad law is to vigorously enforce it. I say "go for it."

If you peel back the onion in places like NYC and Chicago, a significant part of problem seems to be that those responsible for felonies don't get prosecuted for them. The jails are already full and often overcrowded so the courts allow new offenders to plea bargain down to probation and they are put back onto the street.

I think the suspects who would violate the "annoy the police" parameters like spitting on them will be part of the already burgeoning group without a basic respect for the rule of law. Any kind of mass enforcement is going to further crowd the jails and further the public outcry against the PD and the politicians who are abusing it.

Am I worried that this law will increase police abuse? Not in the least. Cuomo, Bloomberg and their minions already have taken government overreach through the PD to unforgivable levels. This law isn't going to make that worse than it already is.

The good people of NY need to suffer under the politicians that they continue to elect as much as possible. It is unfortunate that a minority of New Yorkers feel more like Texans do and they will have to suffer, too. The more that this kind of stuff goes on, the quicker that the Cuomo regime will fall of its own weight just like the government of Detroit did. It is the same substance, just in different degrees of corruption.
Like gun control laws, this law is not targeting those without respect for the law --quite the opposite. The main target of this law is going to be people who want the police to obey the law, and either question them when they break it, or record them doing it on video. Taking video of the police in action will, of course, annoy those officers who aren't following the law, and those are the people this law is targeting.

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