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Carry-a-Kimber wrote:Guess I shoulda just suggested sniping them from the rooftop.

Now that's my kinda thinking!

Oldgringo wrote:Hoi,

Assuming for a moment that you had gone through the steps and received your CHL and further assuming you were armed and you found these thugs of various dimension and culture on your vehicle as you were leaving wherever, what would Hoi Polloi do?

She would go right back from whence she came hopefully without ever being noticed, preferably behind a closed or locked door, preferably around other people, preferably out of their immediate sight, and she would assess the situation from there.

First, wait it out for a little while. Try to get pictures, descriptions, and other details of the people.

Second, call my husband and ask for advice.

Third, find something to pass the time as I waited more.

Fourth, call the police and explain that the group included people who put me in fear for my life as I approached, that they looked under the influence and beyond reason, that I had waited for x length of time but was concerned as the day was waning and the streets were becoming more deserted putting me in even greater fear of what they would do to a single female, that they were blocking my entrance to my only escape route, that I was fearful that they were waiting to mug me, etc.

Fifth, wait for the police. If they refuse to help, call my husband and ask him to come get me, which he would have offered to do when I talked to him sometime back. Or, if another friend is considerably closer, follow up with a call to the friend with the same request, whom I've probably already spoken to and made contingency plans with after talking to my husband.

And if I was traveling alone in a city in which I didn't know a soul, I'd feel a little silly, but I'd resort to calling a taxi cab and asking them to come right up to the door to pick me up. I'd tip well and try to get pictures as we drove by. I'd feel pretty angry later, but I'd be happy that I didn't put my life in danger or take a chance.

That's most likely what I would do.

Carry-a-Kimber wrote:In my version the leader of the group is a clean cut 21 y/o frat boy closer to 155lbs, but I guess it doesn't really matter. I would again ask him to find elsewhere to hang out. If he keeps me from entering my vehicle by physically blocking my way I would consider that a physical threat. At that point I would be close enough to take a clear cell phone photo of the guy's face. He probably wouldn't like that and might even try to ge the phone from me, that would be a physical assault. Appropriate measures would have to be taken.

Hope I didn't leave you hanging too long.

A gang of 8 drunken frat boys who are feet from you would be on you like white on rice while you're holding your cell phone trying to take a picture. They'd leave you bloodied, bruised, and you'd be lucky if your phone wasn't smashed to smithereens and you weren't unconscious. But the frat boys probably would move on without messing with your ride.

If it was a less savory crowd which perhaps included a kid with some theft history, your car would be brutally keyed, your shoes and wallet gone, your phone smashed if old or gone if new, your glasses in shards, and you'd be lucky if someone else saw it and called 911 for you in time.

What makes you think that you and your cell phone could take on a group of 8 drunks who are feet from you and intent on causing you bodily harm? There wouldn't be enough time to blink and even if you could unholster, draw, and fire in time, they'd hit you from behind in seconds. And that's assuming they don't have weapons of their own.

That is simply too many and too close, and the preposterous idea that you'd be using both your hands to snap a pic when you understand they'll be coming at you swinging seems like a particularly bad idea.

WildBill wrote:If he goes up and pushes one of them off his car and the thug falls on the pavement and dies, then he could get convicted of manslaughter like the guy in Salinas, CA.

The guy in Salinas, CA was not convicted of manslaughter. He was convicted of misdemeanor assault.

Orion Christopher Moore pulled into a gas station where a panhandler asked to wash his windshield. Orion told him no, probably several times. When Orion was in the gas station, he saw the panhandler going towards his car to wash his windshield anyway. Some reports say that he saw the man approaching Orion's girlfriend to ask her. Angry that the man was persisting, Orion, IIRC, charged from the gas station and across the parking lot and knocked the elderly man to the ground, killing him on impact.

Orion eventually plead no contest to a charge of assault with force likely to cause great bodily injury, with an enhancement of causing great bodily injury. The judge reduced it from a felony to a misdemeanor at sentencing. He was put on three years of misdemeanor probation and is required to work 400 hours of community service.

In the CA situation, Orion did not fear for his life or safety or even for his property. He was being harassed, but all it would have taken to permanently end the issue was to drive away. He chose out of anger and/or indignation to use force instead. In the OP, he expressed that it was nighttime, that a group of 8 people was resting on his car which angered him but they were not causing any damage, he had no pressing need for them to move immediately and he was fearful of what they'd do if he approached them, so he chose to scream at them from a distance with his gun at low ready and his phone at hand. Unlike in the CA case, they then proceeded to do physical damage to his car before leaving and since the OP and his car will frequently be at the same location and they now have a connection between the two along with anger over it, the situation could be carried forward into the future indefinitely.

Because no immediate damage was being done, no real fear of immediate theft or destruction was present though the potential for it was greatly increased, and because the likely consequences of confronting them greatly outweighed any potential gain, the OP's safest way of protecting himself--which must come first--along with his property--including what is in his storefront/office, which could become a target--was to call the police and wait for them to roll by and run the group off. Reporting a group of suspicious persons loitering after dark and keeping him from being able to leave as they were physically on his car, putting him in fear of attack, theft, or reprisal, would be acted on pretty quickly unless there were several major things going on elsewhere in the city. Even then, he would have the time to get better descriptions of the people and he would be able to protect himself and his property with force if anything escalated, or they would move on of their own accord, probably never to be seen again.