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"agonal respirations"
"ACLS"

Sounds like EMS off duty. Would make for a heck of a good witness for the plaintiff (or prosecution?) in court.

Re: my comment in an earlier post about video muddying the waters...

If you've followed the Nathaniel Sanders case here in Austin at all, it's a perfect example of how this can occur.

Totally different circumstances, mostly favoring the officers. Dashcam video showed much of the incident. However, having seen it played over and over again on local news outlets, it could be interpreted in any number of ways, depending on the narrative you get when viewing the video. I many ways, it caused a lot more speculation than revelation.

Few would disagree, this Vegas shooting is a sad, sad case. I just renewed my membership to Costco... told the wife it was a waste of $50 as we won't be shopping there in the future.

Yet, I still say from some witness accounts it seems like Scott did handle the initial situation with the Costco store employees unwisely. However, it's all "he said, she said" at this point. The complete story of the actual events won't come out in full for years.

Now, as for the issue of being asked to leave a store after an employee sees you are carrying - why argue the point at all? As a long-time business owner, if I tell someone to get out of my place of business, that's my call. The reason doesn't matter. And, having had to call the police to escort unruly patrons out of my place of business in the past, I can tell you that it really hacks a business owner or manager off when patrons think that they have the right to stay when asked to leave the premises. As a private business owner, I can revoke my invitation to your privilege to patronage at any time; it's my prerogative.

Your right to carry does not include a right to remain in a privately owned place of business after the owner or their agent (employee, manager) requests that you leave the premises. And, if you're asked to leave and you refuse, you should expect for law enforcement to be called by the owner or employees.

Apparently, Scott was asked to leave at some point, and he didn't. That was the initial decision that ultimately ended in tragedy, that could have easily been avoided by merely complying with the wishes of the Costco staff.

While we may not like it that people don't want us carrying on their property, if they ask you to leave in my experience there's not much to be done about it.

Charles, what's your take on this issue as an attorney and CHL instructor? Any thoughts or insights as to the implied contract (if any) between business owner and patron, and how it affects CHL holders who are asked to leave because they're carrying?

It'll be many months or even years before facts come out in this case.

Sure, the witness reports differ, but they always do in cases like this. Video, if it exists, may corroborate one or another witness account, or muddy the waters further.

Cops have an extremely difficult job to do, and they don't always receive the best or most complete training, OJT or otherwise. In addition, it appears that Scott made some very poor choices as to how he handled the situation.

Apparently, Scott knew the store employees were alarmed by seeing his carry weapon. Was it worth it for him to "win" an argument with a store employee over his right to carry legally? Was it wise to allow such a situation to escalate to the point that it caused store employees to evacuate the store? Was it worth it in this case for Scott to wait until the incident escalated to police involvement? Would it have been a wiser decision on his part to simply leave the store immediately upon being confronted by store employees, and never shop there again?

We can't tell if the police did or did not react in a manner that was against department policy and state law at this point. However, I will say that these sort of cases have a funny way of playing out in the favor of the department and officers in question. I doubt that these officers will be found at fault, or that the prosecutor will even send the case to a grand jury. Chances are this will all play out in civil court, the family will settle, and it will all be forgotten in a few years... except by CHL instructors and license holders, who will likely change the way they think about how they interact with LEOs when carrying.

IMHO, the bottom line is just what other posters have stated in this thread, and the same thing my CHL instructors taught me - if you're involved in an incident and the police show up, hands up and out slowly away from your body and freeze until they instruct you otherwise. I'd rather be tackled, cuffed, have the tar beat out of me and be alive with cause for a civil action than shot and dead with cause for a civil action.