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by Justin Franklin
Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:49 am
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Never Again Will I...
Replies: 45
Views: 6484

Re: Never Again Will I...

VMI77 wrote:
bdickens wrote:Dead is dead no matter what your assailant's intentions or lack thereof.
So, you think the law allows you to use deadly force to prevent an accident? Say you're standing on top of a building across from another building where construction is taking place, and you see someone about to move a load in way that from your vantage point you are certain will result in the load dropping on and killing people standing in a group down below: you call out, but with all the noise over there he can't hear you, and neither can the people down below --you think you can use deadly force to stop the guy from moving the load?
DIdn't see that one coming!

"rlol" :lol:: :fire
by Justin Franklin
Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:40 am
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Never Again Will I...
Replies: 45
Views: 6484

Re: Never Again Will I...

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Justin CHL wrote:To make a long story short, pulling the trigger should always be the LAST resort.
That's the bottom line, right there. And, in keeping with that old chestnut about nothing good happening at 2 a.m. (which of course has exceptions for those for whom 2 a.m. corresponds to everybody else's 2 p.m.), if one is going to take the responsibility of carrying a gun around, then wisdom dictates circumscribing one's behavior to some degree, if possible, so as to avoid putting one's self into situations where there is a higher probability of needing the gun. Of course, one can't necessarily help it if they live or work in a higher crime area. They have to go there. So the question becomes, "do I really have to be in X place or do Y thing?" And lest anybody get their back up about that, I am not suggesting that you no longer have the freedom to come and go as you please, nor a moral obligation to restrict your movements. I am merely saying that someone who carries a gun has an extra measure of responsibility to act with wisdom.

I used to work in an ER. There is no doubt whatsoever that the number of gunshot patients brought to emergency rooms increases with the lateness of the evening. That's just a fact. Yes, we saw gunshot patients at 11 a.m. and 3 p.m., but those represented a small fraction of the total numbers. Most happen late at night. Those are facts. And by the way, ditto for stabbings and savage beatings.

Life is a game of statistical probabilities. Will I ever confront the situation described in the OP at 2 in the afternoon? It could happen, but the odds of it happening are lower because people are generally out and about doing whatever it is they do during the daytime, instead of out drinking, or cruising around looking for trouble or victims. There are too many possible witnesses.

Hence the wisdom that "nothing good happens at 2 a.m." It may not be universally true, but it is good general advice.
:iagree: :cheers2: :hurry: :clapping: :tiphat:

Very well written! Kudos!
by Justin Franklin
Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:28 am
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Never Again Will I...
Replies: 45
Views: 6484

Re: Never Again Will I...

And how are you to know if they are really trying to hurt you or if they have a disorder? You aren't supposed to know nor is there any way that you can know. All you know is the facts...someone is trying to hit you with a MOVING VEHICLE.

Getting hit by a moving vehicle has been proven to be detrimental to your health.

At the point that you are threatened with being hit with a moving vehicle and you have no other way out...regardless of the mental state of the individual behind the wheel...one should think that you are in fear for your life and you are justified in using not only but force but deadly force. Especially since they are threatining you with deadly force.
Discussions like this are good in the sense that they get people thinking, but they can be difficult due to all the "hypotheticals." I can sit here and read the story with one mindset and others can read it a different way. This is true when it comes it real life events as well…how is the grand jury going to interpret the events? Like it or not, our freedom is on the line because our actions are subject to the interpretations of other. When we are in a situation, we must do our best to keep a clear mind and examine all the different angles. That's not always easy to do…that's why we need to practice!

To make a long story short, pulling the trigger should always be the LAST resort.
by Justin Franklin
Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:49 pm
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Never Again Will I...
Replies: 45
Views: 6484

Re: Never Again Will I...

GreezyG wrote:Ok I'm back and wow! Thanks for all the comments.

I never stated that I was going to start shooting, if I had been armed. The truck in my opinion did aim at me. I saw him coming and pulled all the way over to the curb and he turned even more. My first thought is that it could have been a gang initiation. Looking for a random victim.

When he saw the cop turn the lights on and he took off in a cloud of diesel confirms my feeling that the BG was up to no good.
---------
But this is a good "what if" scenario IMO.

What if, the truck hit me and then turned around to take another run at me. The police open fire in these scenarios. I should include that I drive a VW Jetta, no match to an F350 whatsoever.
I think if they had already hit you and were coming back at you, then you would stand a better chance of convincing a grand jury that you "believed" you had to act immediately to prevent harm to yourself or others. Penal Code Section 9.32 discusses this.
by Justin Franklin
Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:06 pm
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Never Again Will I...
Replies: 45
Views: 6484

Re: Never Again Will I...

XtremeDuty.45 wrote:
Even if that was the case...the truck "allegedly" tried to hit them...missed and turned around. At this point my gun would be out of the holster. If I did not have a way out and he was for sure coming at me...AGAIN...your darn tootin I would fire on him.

At this point I am truly in fear for my life (more people are killed in car accidents than by gun fire). He is trying to hit me with his truck and do Lord knows what...so yea I would have defended myself.
My interpretation…while I can understand your opinion, I don't think this would play out well in the courts. Maybe he's coming back to apologize….maybe he has a disorder. If he had hit you and was coming at you again, that might be more in your favor. I don't know of any "case law" with similar circumstances. Does anyone else know of any case law similar to this "hypothetical" situation?

Several months ago I was first hand witness to a man who ran head on into another vehicle in League City. The man was driving a large SUV and after hitting the other vehicle, he kept pressing on the gas causing the wheels to spin. The guy was conscious and appeared to be in full control of his mental faculties….at least that's what it looked like from the side of the road. My first thought was…"what is this guy doing? is he trying to kill the people in the other car?" I know it was risky, but I went up to the SUV and opened the passenger door. The man did not look over at me. I realized then that there was something not right with this guy. I slammed the gear shift into park and took the keys. All the while this guy is still trying to drive off. The rest of the story….turns out the gentleman had a previous brain injury and was not supposed to be driving. Someone from his church had unknowingly given him their car keys so he could go get donuts. Turned out to be a bad mistake for everyone involved, but thankfully no one was seriously injured.

While one might argue that they believed they would be acting in the defense of a third party or defense of self in this thread, there are just too many unknown variables.
by Justin Franklin
Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:07 pm
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Never Again Will I...
Replies: 45
Views: 6484

Re: Never Again Will I...

VMI77 wrote: The clear cut situations that justify the use of deadly force we don't have to worry about so much, it's the ambiguous situations that will more likely get us into trouble, and it is those scenarios that I think are most interesting and valuable to explore.
:iagree: Well said VMI77!
by Justin Franklin
Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:25 pm
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Never Again Will I...
Replies: 45
Views: 6484

Re: Never Again Will I...

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
VMI77 wrote:Are you suggesting you'd have shot at this other vehicle if you'd had a gun? Say the truck turned around and came at your vehicle again, would you have shot at it under the assumption that the driver was deliberately trying to run into you?
I didn't see even a hint he was suggesting he would have used a gun; only that he wished he had had it if the need had arisen.

Chas.
:iagree: :txflag:
by Justin Franklin
Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:41 am
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Never Again Will I...
Replies: 45
Views: 6484

Re: Never Again Will I...

I always do my best to avoid areas and hours that invite stuff like this. I know its hard to avoid idiots on the roadway, but I have to assume you were driving around late at night or in the early morning hours. My brother does this all the time and I tell him it's only a matter of time before something bad happens.

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