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Hoi Polloi wrote:The stats taken, which I haven't looked up so I'm taking your word for it, of more guns in society=less crimes overall are from a macro level. That does not necessarily mean that more guns known to be on a particular property or person (micro level) the less likely they are to have crimes perpetrated against them. Someone started a thread here the other day about all of his reloading supplies and bullets being stolen. They aren't scared of guns they know about. If they know where a gun is, they can control it easier. They're scared of guns they'll be surprised by.

Embalmo wrote:

In the case of the badge, I do see where the badge could be an important accessory if you are holding someone at gunpoint.

Me and my wife were discussing this recently and neither of us can envision a scenario where it would be practical to hold anyone at gunpoint in a self-defense situation. In a home break-in, we have decided that, "GET OUT, UNLESS YOU WANT TO BE HERE WHEN THE POLICE ARRIVE!" is just practical. Sure, holding a gun on a BD while talking to 911 dispatch gets another BG off the street, but 15 (or more) minutes is an eternity when holding a gun on a scowling assailant. Then what do you do if he/she runs away? Shoot? I say yell, "Get out/run away/leave," and fire if they take on step toward you.

It may be wrong, but my attitude toward self defense is like treating fire ants-If they build a mound next door, then it's no longer my problem, I'm only worried about keeping my own lawn safe. I'm no cop, vigilante, or hero; it's my job to protect my wife, child, self, and cat.

Embalmo

I do agree with you to some extent. If they run that's fine, as long as my family and myself are okay that is great. I apologize that I didn't explain the scenario as fully as I should have. I'm wasn't trying to say that a BG pulls a knife and you pull your gun and hold him until LEO's get there. What I meant was, what would you do in a situation where you would have to cover the BG? Say you shot the BG and he's down. You don't know if he's still armed or could possibly get up and pose a threat again. I myself, am going to cover him until police arrive for my own safety. I'm not trying to throw a million crazy off the wall scenario's out there. The possibility of shooting someone is the risk we knowingly face when getting our CHL. If I have to shoot someone because they posed a real lethal threat, you can bet my gun is going to be on them for the full 5-15 minutes until the LEO's get there. I'm not willing to take a chance that the BG could get up and harm myself or my family. Sorry that I wasn't clear in my other post.

Embalmo wrote:Though people always balk around here at the idea of a CHL badge, I think there are places where IDEALLY (focus on the word ideally) concealed shouldn't always mean concealed. If I had to walk in a scary area to my car, I wouldn't be opposed to a shirt, hat, badge, sash that indicates, "Warning CONCEALED WEAPON PERMIT CARRIER," which might eliminate the need for me to react in the first place to an attack. I would love for my wife to be able to have CHL written all over her clothing.

I believe that the reason that we cannot do this is because of the fear and ignorance of the left, general public, LEO, (and don't give me grief over LEO because CHLs can/do get arrested from LEOs who've never heard of a CHL or a 30.06 sign [they do exists]) and antis in general. It is sad that I have to keep something that is perfectly legal a secret to avoid scrutiny, when getting the word out might save me and my family from attacks.

Embalmo

I can see where you are coming from, but I don't personally think that is the answer to keeping yourself safe. Avoiding the situation to begin with is a great start. Take precautions when parking in a "scary" area to be as close as you can to your final destination and find a safe path before leaving the parking area. I know you can't always find the perfect place to park, but a little scouting can keep you from making a fatal mistake. Avoidance is stressed in the CHL course, and I think that is the best lesson to be had. Look at concealing a handgun as an insurance policy, if you need it it's there. Staying alert and knowing what is going on around you is going to protect you more than your ccw. I don't think it's sad to keep your ccw a secret at all. In fact, it's your best kept secret, when you need it it's there. In a perfect world we wouldn't need to carry in the first place. That is not going to happen so get used to some people being against our freedoms. That is the way it has always been, and will always be. The more PC our country gets the more issues we will have. Just my $.02 anyway

In the case of the badge, I do see where the badge could be an important accessory if you are holding someone at gunpoint. Clip the badge on your belt while you are holding them and waiting for LEO's to show. It might keep them from shooting you when they arrive and see a person holding a gun. I'm not saying have a badge and flash it like some wanna be, but using it only in an extreme situation where you need it to show that you are the good guy, seems fine to me. In a conversation with a LEO friend of mine (sparked by a discussion on Mr. Scott in the Costco shooting and the thread about the "Miss America" CHL sash ), I set up a hypothetical situation that seemed very likely to happen. BG comes to rob you, you reach for wallet, pull out your gun and hold him until LEO's arrive. When the LEO's get there the guy on the ground screams "he's going to shoot me!" or "He took my gun, I'm the one who called!" or anything he can make up to try to get me killed so he can walk. I then asked my friend if he was responding to this and I had a badge on my belt would that help the responding LEO's to not hastily take a shot to disarm me. He agreed that in a situation like that, if he saw a badge he would initially not shoot. Giving me the time to identify myself and secure the weapon. That being said, I do see the importance of badges. I just don't see that you need to parade around like Johnny Law with them. I'll take my chances without one, but I don't see anything wrong with having one for that specific type of situation.