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by Texas Dan Mosby
Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:55 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: A "first" when stopped by DPS last night
Replies: 187
Views: 38101

Re: A "first" when stopped by DPS last night

A-R wrote:BIG difference between vehicles and homes and courts have said so.

I don't agree, because IMO, the type of property is not at issue. The issue is whether we allow our LEO's to circumvent the 4th amendment or not by "fishing" for reasonable suspicion or probable cause that doesn't exist, regardless of the location or property in question.

While some within LEO circles would claim that some of their biggest "busts" on the road were made using this approach, how many times did they detain, interrogate, and search citizens who did nothing more than do 75 in a 70 zone like the OP? How many "big busts" got thrown out of court because the LEO made up an excuse to pull the target over in the first place, and the stop was later proven to be unconstitutional in court? For every "bust" they make, how many citizens did they wrongly suspect, and what kind of impact does that have on citizen-LEO relations?

I don't think it's worth it.

This approach not only encourages our police to circumvent the law, but it rewards them for doing so IF they get away with it, and that is dangerous on many different levels for citizens and LEO's alike. "Fishing" on the road sets an invasive standard that I am not comfortable with, as I don't believe it abides by the law, and it sets the conditions for ignoring the law in other areas of police work. I am of the opinion that it is our duty, as citizens AND LEO's, to nip these things in the bud before they grow out of control, and lend to the destruction of an otherwise "quasi" free society.

That's just my opinion.

Fortunately, I haven't been targeted. Yet. Rest assured, I will voice my concerns to the senior LEO at the station, and my elected representatives, should I be the "victim" of this shoddy police work. I'm sure there's a few constitutional lawyers out there that would be willing to help an old vet explain the concept of the 4th amendment to any uncaring law enforcement agency.

We'll see.
by Texas Dan Mosby
Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:58 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: A "first" when stopped by DPS last night
Replies: 187
Views: 38101

Re: A "first" when stopped by DPS last night

It's "fishing", and it's no good for ANYBODY, citizen or LEO alike.

This approach erodes faith in our LEO's, and encourages LEO's to violate the 4th amendment by "finding" a reason to pull over a vehicle driven by an individual/s that meet a profile [young male, out of state tags, driving on a known "drug corridor" OMG PULL HIM OVER!!!!!!], or "finding" a reason to search their person and vehicle in hopes of finding criminal goods [well, they LOOKED nervous when I interrogated them about drugs/guns, so THAT'S why I searched them.... and their vehicle... but they were "clean"].

Would citizens have a problem with LEO's going house to house looking for ordinance violations, and then interrogating home owners at their front doors? I would.

"Sir, did you know that your mail box violates county law? Are there any illegal goods in your home? How about drugs? Do you have any guns? You look kind of nervous, mind if I take a look in your home? I'm going to have to run the serial numbers of your guns, TV, computers, power tools, and cell phone through our system to make sure they aren't stolen, do you mind if I search you? It's for YOUR safety, and I'm sure you have NOTHING to hide right?"

"Fishing" does more harm than good, as this approach intentionally compromises the integrity of our LEO's, and when citizens lose faith in their police and government, things get.....ugly.

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