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zero4o3

K5GU wrote:And folks pressing the edges of the carry laws in Texas must also know that it does not have to be a business owner, manager or employee to cause you grief - In Texas, any person who suspects you are committing an offense ( other customers, etc.) and has witnesses and/or proof, can file a sworn Class C misdemeanor complaint against you.

in Houston HPD has already made it clear anyone who makes a false claim along those lines will be the ones who end up getting a fine.

zero4o3

goose wrote:, I am truly curious what penalties or "encouragements" folks think might be imposed on business owners. Property rights alone would seem to muddy these waters.

If they are dialing 911 to contact the police I guess it would be filing a false police report?(I'm not actually sure what the law is in regards to 911) If they are calling a non emergency line I suspect it would be similar to the fines you can receive if police respond to your security alarm and there was no crime.

zero4o3

Papa_Tiger wrote:
I'm disappointed that businesses will get away with posting non-legally binding signs and calling the police because THEY don't want to give verbal notice, effectively making the police their armed messengers, but there isn't much can be done about it until the 2017 legislative session.

Frankly there is no need to be disappointed because you are referring to one example that likely never happened. I also suspect as others have mentioned (maybe not in this thread) that if someone does do as you say and report people for carrying in an area that is not legally posted they will likely face penalties of some kind. HPD as already made a statement to that affect.

zero4o3

If we don't address the issue eventually a gun-buster sign will become the defacto 30.07 sign because 'we don't want to make waves'.

A lot of people are making this argument but here is the issue I have with it. The examples we are looking at are either invalid 30.07 signs or signs that specifically (and politely) request people not open carry. I will admit I could have missed something in this and the other recent threads but I have seen no reports of anyone having the police called on them while OC in an area with a generic gun buster type sign.

In the case of these signs that don't legally prevent but make it clear the owner does not want OC on their property I would suggest that a polite conversation with the owner might go much farther than directly challenging their choice. I might go as far as to argue that the non compliant sign in freebirds is more respectful than posting a compliant 30.07 sign from my perspective at least.

zero4o3

mayor wrote:
TomsTXCHL wrote:Yikes nine pages, for a troll!!!

It seems to me this signage thing is pretty simple though: if you're carry a firearm, whether concealed or open, you are always on the lookout for signage. So if you see a sign, ANY sign including one that says simply "no guns", if you walk-in OC you are asking for trouble. If you walk-in anyway, CC, then you must be very confident that you are concealed.

My understanding of the standard signs, especially the 1" tall letter requirement, is that this is intended so people see the sign! And since carriers are looking in the first place, they will surely see it unless it is simply not present near the door they enter. Very small signs, or hand-written signs should be obeyed if you can see-and-read them, but if you don't/can't then the law protects you from prosecution.

then 30.07 is irrelevant. Any gun buster sign will do to prevent open carry. so far, that is what I've gotten from this thread.

While neither is illegal there is a difference between walking past a 30.07 sign that is non compliant due to size and walking past a gun buster type sign. One of them shows that the property owner is clearly against licensed carry.

zero4o3

baldeagle wrote: I believe there should be a reporting procedure for improper signage, perhaps only for 30.07, that allows gun carriers to report businesses that are out of compliance. Then perhaps the law can impose a fine on a business that uses improper signage and then calls the police to enforce their desires, so that they can be given a specific amount of time to either come into compliance or remove the signs. Or they can simply pay the police every time they call them, much like the charge for false alarms on alarm systems.

I wonder how they are contacting the police? If they call 911 to report the person without posting a sign (or multiple times with an invalid sign) they would likely be fined /prosecuted for a false report.

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